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Does anyone know anything about Queen Hatshepsut?
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2004 2:01 pm 
I you did that would be very helpful
Thanks :!:


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2004 7:35 pm 
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well, i know that she wore a beard to look like a man, even though everyone knew she was a womeN! she would also dress like a man in court N stuff!


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2004 2:07 pm 
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Hatsheptsut was the wife of Thutmosis II. When he died and claimed the young Thutmosis III, son of a concubine Isis, as heir, Hatsheptsut essentially usurped the throne from him, naming herself Pharaoh under the story that she was the daughter of Amun and Amun had named her Pharaoh.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2004 11:15 am 
AnibusRae wrote:
well, i know that she wore a beard to look like a man, even though everyone knew she was a womeN! she would also dress like a man in court N stuff!



well i know that she were a beard son becam a pharo they would just think that and were guys choling but she also thought that if she did this stuff that the (gods) would look down on her(him) and seend her to the after life and then whin her son became pharo that his father died :wink:


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2004 2:34 pm 
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Anonymous wrote:
AnibusRae wrote:
well, i know that she wore a beard to look like a man, even though everyone knew she was a womeN! she would also dress like a man in court N stuff!



well i know that she were a beard son becam a pharo they would just think that and were guys choling but she also thought that if she did this stuff that the (gods) would look down on her(him) and seend her to the after life and then whin her son became pharo that his father died :wink:


I cant even understand a word of that


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2004 2:31 am 
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well hathseput took over the throne from tutmoses II since her stepson tutmosesIII was too young to be pharoah she also ruled with tutmosesIII as co-regent she was also a gods wife after har death haer tomb and statues were decsreted by her enemies some believe it was tutmoses but i beg to differ it colud have been some else she ruled for 12 years :wink: [/b]


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2004 8:11 am 
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The biggest stumbling-block to the theory of the desecation of her tomb and the erasure of her name being done by T III is the fact that it wasn't occuring until after he had reigned for 20 years.
Most Egyptologists now believe that it was an attempt at discrediting the rule of a woman--it would be an affront to Ma'at for a woman to rule--Egypt's pharaoh had to be a Horus--a male. Basically, she was erased from Egyptian history.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2004 11:56 am 
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Osiris II wrote:
The biggest stumbling-block to the theory of the desecation of her tomb and the erasure of her name being done by T III is the fact that it wasn't occuring until after he had reigned for 20 years.
Most Egyptologists now believe that it was an attempt at discrediting the rule of a woman--it would be an affront to Ma'at for a woman to rule--Egypt's pharaoh had to be a Horus--a male. Basically, she was erased from Egyptian history.


Welcome back Osiris II hope you got moved alright and are reading again :)
You're right about the laspe of time between the asscession of Thutmose III and the desecation of her remains as a Pharaoh. Also about the supposed reason for this desecation. A good source on this is Women in Ancient Egypt by Gay Robins pg. 51-51.

On the last sentence pertaining to the desecation of the Pharonic remains of Hapshepsut by Thutmose III. Dr. Robins notes that "the name and figure of Hapshepsut, as queen were not attacked."

I think that is cool. :)


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2004 2:53 pm 
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Thanks for asking about moving, Sekhmet.
Yes, I got all moved--unfortunately, all of my boks are now hopelessly mixed up--it's going to take me a couple of weeks to re-arrange them!
I am reading right now, though. It's Ray's "Reflections of Osiris" and it's quite good. Not much in the way of new material, but it's an interesting read. He talks about the lives of 12 (I think) individuals that lived in ancient Egypt--Pharaohs, priests, artisans and common folk, using insriptions, papyri and ostracon as sources for various comments.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2004 1:57 pm 
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Hatshepsut was married to her brother tuthmosis the second her father being tuthmosis the first. Now when her husband died his only heir to the egyption throne was his son who later became tuthmosis the third. at this stage tuthmosis the third was but a child of about four years of age and was therefore too young to govern all of egypt with matters of state and warfare.
Hatshepsut agreed to take joined responsibility with her stepson and became coregent. She then decided to overtake her step sons rule and proclaim herself PHAROH. which is not a feat that was carried on for too long by other queens prior to her who tried.
She suceeded in gaining the respect of tuthmosis the thirds army but most were unsure of her. She became close with one of her soilders who was later to become the governor and sole protector of her only daughter. His name was senenmut. he was also the main archetecht on her buildis such as her mortuary temple and her great obolisks. she sent out her army to the land of Punt where they discovered vast amounts of incense which no other pharoh had ever done before. when tuthmosis was old enough he siezed back the throne after she died and had all her images and names eradicated from her tomb and tempel to stop her living in the after life hope this info helps you :lol:


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Hatshepsut
PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2004 9:03 am 
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Hatshepsut was annointed by her father Thutmose I to rule by his side at an early age of 15. Thutmose II had no desire to rule. She did not upsurp the throne as many believed.
Her memory was not erased in History although much attempt was made to erase her by her half brother Thutmose III. Her temple Deir El Bahari still exist's, along w/ oblisk's that she had erected for the God's, also there is a statue of her in the New York museum.
Thutmose III is seen by many as a great ruler but if you look closer you will discover that he was a cruel man (little Napaleon). Egpyt started to fall to it's knee's after Thutmose III's rule. I believe that Hatshepsut's stepbrother was responsible for her death, cover up and take over of the country and it's people.
Hope you find the following interesting read.....
http://www.rostau.clara.co.uk/Hatshepsut/
http://www.bibarch.com/Chronology/Exodu ... eptsut.htm


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:16 am 
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Wasn't Tuthmosis III her step son and also her son-in-law. The only daughter that Hatchepsut actually had was married to Tuthmosis III. He was the son of Tuthmosis II by another wife but definately not the half brother of Hatchepsut, Tuthmosis II was her half brother.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2004 11:31 am 
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Here's the story as I know it, correct me if I get the facts wrong:

Hatshepsut's parents were Tuthmosis I and Queen Ahmose, and she was married to her half brother Tuthmosis II. Upon his untimely death, the heir was the one year old baby Tuthmosis the III. Tuthmosis was born of an insignificant member of the harem, and thus Hatshepsut saw it as her duty to rule on his behalf. Hatshepsut took over as regent for seven years, before proclaiming herself king and ruling jointly with him for another fourteen years.

Many see Hatshepsut as a scheming woman, hated by her stepson, who had her effaced from monuments immediately after her death. However, I for one believe that that is not the case. Rather, it seems that Hatshepsut and Tuthmosis III enjoyed a successful companionship with Tuthmosis managing the military and the priests of Amun, whilst Hatshepsut managed the economy and other religious practices.
Hatshepsut's notoriety and fame arose from the fact that she adopted a Horus name (a royal name limited to kings) and the full pharaonic regalia, including a false beard, also traditionally worn only by the king. This she justified by saying that her earthly body was that of a woman, but her ka was that of a man. This is the main reason why she is so famous.

Hatsheput also mounted major espeditions to Punt, the African coast at the southernmost end of the Red Sea. Gold, ebony, animal skins, baboons, and myrrh trees were brought back to Egypt, the trees to later adorn the Queen's famous Deir al-Bahri temple at western Thebes.
As a woman, Hatshepsut helped focus the ambitions of the Middle Kigdom, and drive egypt towards material and economic goals that were to strengthen her trade and prosperity. Whereas the male rulers before her had largely focused on obtaining wealth through battle and invasion, she helped Egypt to develop and prosper.

One last thing, why were her names and efigies erased? Many believe that it was her son preventing her from reaching the fields of hotep- perhaps he was annoyed that she had stolen the throne form him. I think differently though. I expect that it has more to do with Maat than anything else, the idea of a sole female pharaoh did not truly comply with Egyptian belief at the time.

What do you guys think?

I am drunk with my own success at writing such a long post- I didn't just copy and paste it- honestly. I should expect that you can tell though, I bet that it has loads of incongruencies and spellin mistaykes (sic!)


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2004 1:21 pm 
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Very nice post Psusennes I. For the most part I think you have stated the known facts about Hatshepsut and her rise to power very well, however there are still a number of mysteries surrounding here life, reign, and death. Since nobody knows the true relationship between Hatshepsut and Thutmoses III, we can only speculate on the details of the co-regency, whether Thutmoses held her in disdain, the details of her disappearance, and the defacing of her name and images.

One thing that I always found interesting about Hatshepsut is that everyone always says when she took the throne she also took on the male persona. This is not always true. Yes, most scenes where she is shown in the presence of Amun, she is depicted as a male and here titulary reflects this, yet, there are numerous statues and inscriptions that depict her as a female with the regalia of the Pharaoh with titles shown in the female gender. This expands on your statement "that her earthly body was that of a woman, but her ka was that of a man" and how her 'divine' self in the presence of the deities (as the manifestation of Horus) was male, and here physical self as Pharaoh of the people was that of a woman, yet even this is not always true.

Examples:
Here, on the left side facing left, we see Ma'at-Ka-Re (Hatshepsut) making an offering to Amun. "She" is shown with the kilt,wig, and physique of a male Pharaoh..but look closer. Look at the cartouche above her head and the title that preceeds it.

It says " Nesu.t bi.t Neb.t tawi Ma'at-Ka-Re Di Ankh djet." This translates to "King of Upper and Lower Egypt, Mistress of the two lands (not the traditional "lord of the two lands") Ma'at-Ka-Re, Given Life eternaly". The small half round or 'breadcake' shown below the glyph for Lord denotes a 'feminine' gender and transliterates to '.t.

Image


Here we see the famous statue of Hatshepsut from the Metropolitan Museum in New York City (one of my absolute favorite pieces). She is shown wearing the Nemes head cloth while seated upon a throne, yet she has breasts, a very delicat facial features and an obvious physique of a woman. Looking closer on her lower right (your lower left) again we see her cartouche and a title preceding it. It transliterates to "Neter.t nefer Neb.t tawi Ma'at-Ka-Re. It's translation is "The good Goddess (not the traditional "good God"), Mistress of the two lands, Ma'at-Ka-Re. Again we see two examples of the .t in the form of the 'breadcake' that denotes the feminine form of the glyph.

Image


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2004 12:50 am 
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One other thing that can be seen at the Red Temple is the replacement of the suffix pronouns. -s has been replaced with -f in several places and any reference to we (Hatshepsut and Tuthmosis- which would be -n) was replaced with I (-i).


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