Hi again Si-Amun,
First off there is no need to apologize. We are debating we are both knowledgable and we both want more knowledge of this interesting and confusing period. What should matter in the debate is our sources. Who has the better stronger sources to supplement their debate.
i haven't been offended by anything you have written to me. i am sorry if i have caused you distress please accept my apology. i do tend to get bent a bit out of shape by the constant many times wild theorizing that affects this period by the experts and their readers. As scientists, as they like to remind us they are, they should hold to facts not conjecture, but as Dr. Giles says. "In fact we know enough about this period not only to make a substantial effort to reconstruct a bit of its history and art, but also unfortunately to inspire a host of incomplete theories and speculations arising from the incomplete data and the romance of Egypt. Nor is this speculation confined to the unqualified, but it arises from those who should know better." (from The Amarna Age: Egypt by Frederick J. Giles pg. 2) Like i have told Orisis II i have waited a long time for Dr. Giles! He validates many of my own long held beliefs, and he has the proofs to support them!
As for Amenhotep's choice of living space on the West Bank, traditionally the land of the Dead! If he was alive today, the public would be demanding he have his head shunk.
I am trying to assist you in expanding your knowledge believe it or not.
However if you continually hold to your traditional thoughts my assistance won't be much help to you. But perhaps they will be to the next reader not so sure of their own traditional thoughts. And that is okay too! We are not the only ones with interest in this period
i agree with you on Akhetaten's lack of temples for other gods/goddess' but in most of Egypt's cities there were few temples to any god/goddess except for the one that was that cities main God. And Akhetaten was the cult city of Aten. So i wouldn't expect many temples of other gods there, just as i don't expect or find many temples of other gods/goddess in the cult cities of Osiris- Abydos, Ptah-Memphis, Hathor- Iunet, where one does find shines to Osiris but the temples are for Hathor. i can go on...
My own main interest is in the prehistoric, early state formation of Egypt and the Old Kingdom. But there is so little written about them because they are just to far back in time and so little remains. i can barely tolerate anything past Merenptah of the 19th dynasty. So my hat is off to you a Ptolomic period person. Really!
Okay, about you're wondering about Tiy thankyou for the expansion of your wondering. Again, nothing i have read dwells on it. Even in the way of wild speculation. Myself, i have read all of the Amarna Letters, and several books that discuss them in depth. This is how i see your quotes... i agree with Dr. Daivd Rohl in that the 18th Dynasty is the period of Kings David and Solomon. It is about the only thing i do agree with him about. i came to my agreement through entirely different means than he did to come to them.
My own theory of these quotes is that Akhenaten, with his Aten has decided that the he, Egypt, and the Aten can no longer deal with the traditional peoples and princes of Canaan, terrible idolitors you know. He as decided to support a poet/musican, talented young man. Who happens to be a pretty good general as well, on top of which he loves one all powerful god too. In other words, Akhenaten didn't lose the areas in question, but simply changed his interest in who was to govern them for Egypt. To me this is the real reason why the Ramesses family criminalized him so... not because of the Atenist cult but because he allowed a strong nation to develope in traditional Egyptian lands. There is much more to this but not here, or now.
Another aspect on this regarding your wondering about Q. Tiy is that with a short period or no time period of co-regencey she would have had plenty of time to have left some indications about her son's foreign affairs policy and this might have, did not suvive for us to read. On the other hand a long coregencey with Amenhotep passing away around year 12 of Akhenaten, and Tiy herself by year 15, 16 wouldn't have given her much time.
Okay two lines from one hymn is proof that he didn't respect other gods/goddesses? In that god's cult city? Okay, but not enough proof for me. How do you explain the moving of the Mnevis bull to AKhetaten?
As for my source of confusion on your stand regarding Akhenaten and his religious revolution...> Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2004 3:23 pm Si-Amun wrote
"but it was Akhenaten who started the real religous upheaval by denying Amun and the other gods,". i regret if i misread or didn't understand, please forgive me. And thank you for clearifing it in your last post.