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PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 7:38 pm 
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Sekhmet wrote:

Okay Zampeada, because i have researched this topic with some of the best books in the field. Do you want to know why Pepy II is discounted by the vast majority of scholars as the Pharaoh of the Exodus? There are 2 reasons would you like to know them, and how to face these problems and make them disappear? If so let me know :)



yup i guess... but i think we should discuss it in private. here is my email: zampeada@yahoo.com

i tried to search the name 'asiah' but no... i couldn't find any. her name identify from prophet muhammad speech, her full name was Asiah Mazahim. Other women are Maryam Imran (Jesus' Mother, or Marry), Khadijah Khuwailid and Fatimah Muhammad.

This is what I found related to Pharaoh's wife in Koran, yet the unnamed Queen:

God has made an example for those who believe: the wife of Pharaoh when she said, “My Lord, build a house in Paradise for me in Your presence and rescue me from Pharaoh and his deeds and rescue me form this wrongdoing people. (66:11)

The family of Pharaoh picked him (Moses) up so that he might be an enemy and a source of grief to them. Certainly Pharaoh and Haman and their troops were in the wrong. The wife of Pharaoh said, "A source of delight for me and for you; do not kill him. It may well be that he will be of use to us or perhaps we could adopt him as a son." They were not aware. (28: 8-9)

There was other women before Asiah, her name is Masyitah. She was a wife to Pharaoh's official and hairdresser to Pharaoh's daughter. She was killed (along with her family) because she believed in One God. It is said that Asiah witnessed Masyitah courage and later become the believer of One God.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 12:53 am 
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zampeada wrote:
Sekhmet wrote:

Okay Zampeada, because i have researched this topic with some of the best books in the field. Do you want to know why Pepy
II is discounted by the vast majority of scholars as the Pharaoh of the Exodus? There are 2 reasons would you like to know
them, and how to face these problems and make them disappear? If so let me know :)



yup i guess... but i think we should discuss it in private. here is my email: zampeada@yahoo.com

i tried to search the name 'asiah' but no... i couldn't find any. her name identify from prophet muhammad speech, her full name
was Asiah Mazahim. Other women are Maryam Imran (Jesus' Mother, or Marry), Khadijah Khuwailid and Fatimah
Muhammad.

This is what I found related to Pharaoh's wife in Koran, yet the unnamed Queen:

God has made an example for those who believe: the wife of Pharaoh when she said, “My Lord, build a house in Paradise for me
in Your presence and rescue me from Pharaoh and his deeds and rescue me form this wrongdoing people. (66:11)

The family of Pharaoh picked him (Moses) up so that he might be an enemy and a source of grief to them. Certainly Pharaoh
and Haman and their troops were in the wrong. The wife of Pharaoh said, "A source of delight for me and for you; do not kill
him. It may well be that he will be of use to us or perhaps we could adopt him as a son." They were not aware. (28: 8-9)

There was other women before Asiah, her name is Masyitah. She was a wife to Pharaoh's official and hairdresser to Pharaoh's
daughter. She was killed (along with her family) because she believed in One God. It is said that Asiah witnessed Masyitah
courage and later become the believer of One God.


Hi Zampaeda,

I had forgotten that the Qu'ran named an assistant to the Pharaoh of Moses. Thank you for that reminder there of Haman. While the names don't match, (due to differences in time?) i can't think of a better match than Lord Weni.

Thanks for the other Sura's information and the story about Masyitah.

i will be emailing you with the other. Have a nice day.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 1:59 am 
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Sekhmet wrote:

Hi Zampaeda,

I had forgotten that the Qu'ran named an assistant to the Pharaoh of Moses. Thank you for that reminder there of Haman. While the names don't match, (due to differences in time?) i can't think of a better match than Lord Weni.

Thanks for the other Sura's information and the story about Masyitah.

i will be emailing you with the other. Have a nice day.


this one is related to the name 'haman' mentioned in Koran. haman was mentioned six times (28:6, 8, 38; 29: 39; 40: 24, 36). i think haman is not the same person as in the Book of Easther (although some claim it is).

funnily enough, there was no one ever in the history of Egypt called Haman! I believed that Haman might have been a title name possibly “Priest of Amun”, similar to Pharaoh. Amun is also known as "Hammon" and both are normal pronunciations of the same name.

my logical explanation was, Priest in ancient Egypt was basically different as we defined them in modern society. Their responsibility does not limit to religious practice but also in administration for example in construction of building. Hapuseneb, High Priest of Amun in the era of Queen Hapsutset, was responsible for the building of a ship, a gate, a shrine, for the production of temple equipment, door wings and buildings (Lord Weni play that part too right?). This explains why Pharaoh commanded Haman to construct a building as depicted below:

Pharaoh said: "O Haman! Build me a lofty palace, that I may attain the ways and means- The ways and means of (reaching) the heavens and that I may mount up to the god of Moses: But as far as I am concerned, I think (Moses) is a liar!" (40:36-37)

There are also another fascinating character which was mentioned along with Pharaoh and Haman... Qarun (Korah?). A very little info about him found. Not sure if it is a personal name or a title. But from Koran we know that Qarun was people of Moses. He possesses enormous fortune; even the keys alone were heavy for a party of strong men. He was arrogance with his possession. God caused the earth to swallow him and his possession. I don't there is any physical evidence indicate this incident!

i would like to know why your Pepi I's hypothesis as Pharaoh of Moses rejected by many scholars. perhaps we can talked that in email.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2004 2:14 am 
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zampeada wrote:
this one is related to the name 'haman' mentioned in Koran. haman was mentioned six times (28:6, 8, 38; 29: 39; 40: 24, 36). i think haman is not the same person as in the Book of Easther (although some claim it is).

funnily enough, there was no one ever in the history of Egypt called Haman! I believed that Haman might have been a title name possibly “Priest of Amun”, similar to Pharaoh. Amun is also known as "Hammon" and both are normal pronunciations of the same name.

my logical explanation was, Priest in ancient Egypt was basically different as we defined them in modern society. Their responsibility does not limit to religious practice but also in administration for example in construction of building. Hapuseneb, High Priest of Amun in the era of Queen Hapsutset, was responsible for the building of a ship, a gate, a shrine, for the production of temple equipment, door wings and buildings (Lord Weni play that part too right?). This explains why Pharaoh commanded Haman to construct a building as depicted below:

Pharaoh said: "O Haman! Build me a lofty palace, that I may attain the ways and means- The ways and means of (reaching) the heavens and that I may mount up to the god of Moses: But as far as I am concerned, I think (Moses) is a liar!" (40:36-37)

There are also another fascinating character which was mentioned along with Pharaoh and Haman... Qarun (Korah?). A very little info about him found. Not sure if it is a personal name or a title. But from Koran we know that Qarun was people of Moses. He possesses enormous fortune; even the keys alone were heavy for a party of strong men. He was arrogance with his possession. God caused the earth to swallow him and his possession. I don't there is any physical evidence indicate this incident!

i would like to know why your Pepi I's hypothesis as Pharaoh of Moses rejected by many scholars. perhaps we can talked that in email.


Hi Zampeada, i like your logic, and your right about Lord Weni and the duties of being a priest. i am sorry but i don't think i am of much help in you quest for more on Qarun. Although it rings a bell. In the stories about Moses and Hebrews in the Wilderness. There is one about a man who takes treasure that God had commanded to be destroyed. The Koran's justice towards Qarun is kinder than the justice the Hebrews dealt that man, he and his family were excuted.

Give me a couple of days to email you, with that information. I should have it for you by Monday or Tuesday. I have to do emails and such at home.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2004 2:22 am 
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Sekhmet wrote:
Osiris II wrote:
Please give me a posted reference that shows that Christian Minimalist thinking is wrong--I don't believe any qualified reference exists--only vague statements that prove your point--which is just typical of your type of thought-process.


You want a qualified reference that supports my statement that Biblical Minimalists are not only wrong but using corrupt... yes i said corrupt data. Well here are 3.

The Bible Unearthed, Archaeology's New Vision of Ancient Israel and the Origin of Its Sacred Texts, by Israel Finkelstein and Neil Asher Siblerman is that it uses the Shoshenq I as Shishak page 18.

Taken from Pharaohs and Kings A Biblical Quest by David Rohl, Crown Publishing 1995. Champollion was wrong in his reading of the Shoshenq I's campainge. It wasn't Jerusalem but the place of the Kings Hand. pg. 122

Shoshenq does not easily translate into Shishak. pg 128.

Karol Mysliwiec in The Twilight of Ancient Egypt, First Millennium BCE, Cornell University Press, english translation David Lorton, 2000. pg 45 makes it abundantly clear that Shoshenq I wasn't Shishak.


Osiris II, please tell me you read this after i ceased to exist to you??? But wait, you PM me after that. Umm my ability to provide what is requested is just ignored. Which is so typcial... of those that are horrified that the Jewish history book might be true.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2004 9:25 am 
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In the Winter 2003-2004 issue of KMT, a scholar--Omar Zuhdi--who goes to great lengths, and with many references shown in a bibliograpy--believes that the Pharaoh's daughter who found Moses and raised him is none other than Hatshepsut!
He offers a quite convincing argument.
I don't know if you can read article is KMT on-line or not, but it would be more than worth the effort to try. It's a very interesting article. This man has written several articles. He received his masters in Egyptology at John Hopkins.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2004 2:00 am 
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Osiris II wrote:
In the Winter 2003-2004 issue of KMT, a scholar--Omar Zuhdi--who goes to great lengths, and with many references shown in a bibliograpy--believes that the Pharaoh's daughter who found Moses and raised him is none other than Hatshepsut!
He offers a quite convincing argument.
I don't know if you can read article is KMT on-line or not, but it would be more than worth the effort to try. It's a very interesting article. This man has written several articles. He received his masters in Egyptology at John Hopkins.


Thankyou Osiris II this is the kind of post that i appreciate. :) I am familiar with the above mentioned article, i have it at home.

He uses Shoshenq I as Shiskak to arrive at Moses in the time of Hatshepsut. He also uses 2nd Kings 6:1 in his theory. Shoshenq I as Shiskak is discredited by Dr. Rohl and by Karol Mysliwiec both noted scholars. While comparing 2nd Kings 6:1 with Judges 2:18 and adding the total number of years given in Judges discredits the use of 2nd Kings 6:1 as a "real number" to work from.

His article only goes to unscore my argument that scholars are using corrupt data to establish their minimalizing Bible arguments.

You will also find that by using this corrupt data they manage to fit their work into a close approximation of the traditional Christian Chronology that was last adapted by Bishop Ussher in 1650 AD.

Let us begin to consider realistically Hatshepsut rasing a condemned Hebrew child. She the earthly daughter of Tuthmosis I, born of the divine union of her mother with Amun. She never married her noble lover, and apparently had no desire to allow her lessor royal blooded nephew Tuthmosis III to rule as was his birth right. It doesn't play well with what we know of her. That she would suddenly adopt a condemned child raising him as a possible future Pharaoh. I don't remember what Pharaoh the article stated made the condemnation of Hebrew children. If it was her father, my position is strenghtened by her known love of her father. She would not break her father's laws, i would think.

Nor does the some 50 year reign of Tuthmosis III, bear any of the Biblical recorded signs of the Exodus. That would support any theories that are based upon archaic chronology established long before archaeology.


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