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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2004 2:14 am 
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i think u know lots but how about the other princes then... care to explain.


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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2004 10:06 pm 
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zampeada wrote:
i think u know lots but how about the other princes then... care to explain.


From the Amarna Letters found in Akhenaten's capital city. We know that Canaan, Palestine cities had Princes, in the century prior to Merenphat. Merenphat use of Princes for the city states mentioned along side the Prince of Israel isn't a problem. The problem comes when we don't discuss Merenphat's use of Israel's Prince along side the other princes of Canaan and Palestine. Or focus on the wording used for Israel and ignore the Prince.


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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2004 11:09 pm 
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How about the nine bows? It had been mention even earlier... I mean in egypt history... They were already mention even at the 1st dynasty...

Nine Bows: the various people in and on the borders of Egypt, and also over a later often mentioned part of the Egyptian population known as the Erkheye or 'Lapwing-folk' who were held by many Egyptologist to have been the subjugated inhabitants of the Delta.

I wonder why are they referred as nine bows? Unless they are a small group of people.


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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2004 2:31 am 
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zampeada wrote:
How about the nine bows? It had been mention even earlier... I mean in egypt history... They were already mention even at the 1st dynasty...

Nine Bows: the various people in and on the borders of Egypt, and also over a later often mentioned part of the Egyptian population known as the Erkheye or 'Lapwing-folk' who were held by many Egyptologist to have been the subjugated inhabitants of the Delta.

I wonder why are they referred as nine bows? Unless they are a small group of people.


i believe it was because it was tradition Zampeada. Which is also why Israel is written as it was, tradition. Like you said since at least the 1st dynasty border states were called the Nine Bows.

My sources indicate that the Lapwing folk were the free born peasants of Egypt, including those of Upper Egypt. This would give Egypt the following classes slave, peasant, craftmens/artistians, noble, and Pharaoh.


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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2004 7:55 am 
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Sekhmet wrote:
zampeada wrote:
How about the nine bows? It had been mention even earlier... I mean in egypt history... They were already mention even at the 1st dynasty...

Nine Bows: the various people in and on the borders of Egypt, and also over a later often mentioned part of the Egyptian population known as the Erkheye or 'Lapwing-folk' who were held by many Egyptologist to have been the subjugated inhabitants of the Delta.

I wonder why are they referred as nine bows? Unless they are a small group of people.


i believe it was because it was tradition Zampeada. Which is also why Israel is written as it was, tradition. Like you said since at least the 1st dynasty border states were called the Nine Bows.

My sources indicate that the Lapwing folk were the free born peasants of Egypt, including those of Upper Egypt. This would give Egypt the following classes slave, peasant, craftmens/artistians, noble, and Pharaoh.


so it the "prince".


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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2004 6:21 am 
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Would you happen to have the Pharaoh's name according to Dr. Rohl, the last i am aware of is his preference for Dhutmoses of the 13th Dynasty.


Yes that was the one. Djedneferre Dudimose. There's not a lot of evidence for it. There is more for his assertion that Amenemhet III was the pharaoh served by Joseph but even this is extremely scant.


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PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2004 7:14 pm 
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Interesting. In the time of Moses, Egyptian still recall Joseph... This what i found in verses of Koran:

A man among Pharaoh's people who had faith, but kept his faith concealed, said, "Are you going to kill a man for saying 'My Lord is God' when he has brought you Clear Signs from your Lord? If he is telling a lie, be it on his own head. But if he is telling the truth, then some of what he is promising you will certainly happen to you. God does not guide any unbridled inveterate liar. My people! The kingdom is yours today, as masters in the land, but who will help us against God's violent force, if it comes upon us?"

Pharaoh said, "I only show you what I see myself and I only guide you to the path of rectitude."

The man who had faith said, "My people! I fear for you a fate like that of the factions (of old), the same as happened to the people of Noah and 'Ad and Thamud and those who followed after them. God does not want any injustice for His servants. My people! I fear for you the Day of Calling Out, the Day when you will turn your backs in flight, having no one to protect you from God. Whoever God misguides will have no guide. Yusuf (Joseph) brought you the Clear Signs before, but you never stopped doubting what he brought to you to the extent that when he died, you said, 'God will never send another Messenger after him' That is how God misguides those who are unbridled and full of doubt."

Those who argue about the Signs of God without any authority coming to them do something hateful in the sight of God and in the sight of the people who believe. That is how God seals up the heart of every arrogant oppressor. (Qur'an, 40: 28-35)


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Telling of stories
PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2004 9:32 am 
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Was it God's hand that wrote the Koran, Bible, relief's inscribed on the temple wall's of Ancient Egypt? We use to be a pure people of heart and this was the way, light, love. I think we are getting lost in topic of the Exodus and Ancient Egypt ...Ifwe want to talk about RELIGION let's go back to Ancient Egypt's Greatest Gift?

The Memphite Stone

by Dr. John Palo

WE THRILL over the artifacts of King Tut's tomb, stand in awe before the Sphinx, and the Gizeh pyramids overwhelm us justly so. However, standing in the British Museum is a very old, black Egyptian stone slab that may be more important than all the above wonders. It is the Memphite creation stone. According to Egyptologist Dr. James H. Breasted, it contains "the oldest thoughts of men that have anywhere come down to us in written form." The Memphite stone tells the story of how creation takes place. Egyptologists agree this story was current in ancient Memphis as long as 5000 years ago.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

The stone itself has seen hard times. For untold years this great document had been used as a bottom grinding stone for grain. Years of flour-making upon the stone obliterated the middle third of its inscribed message. Yet, that which is still legible succinctly presents man's earliest thoughts about how God creates, how man can create, the Logos, etc. Truly, this is one of our most important human documents.

But for the insight of one man, this ancient philosophical writing would have been lost to us. An eternal debt of gratitude is owed to the Ethiopian Egyptian Pharaoh Shabaka who made this writing available to us and those who follow us.

Shabaka ruled Egypt in the eighth century B.C. The stone states, "His majesty [meaning himself] wrote out this writing anew in the house of his father Ptah-South-Of-His-Wall. His majesty had found it as a work of the ancestors, it having been eaten of worms and not legible from beginning to end. Then his majesty wrote it out anew, so that it was more beautiful than it was before." Sha-baka's "eaten of worms" copy was probably of papyrus. Thanks to this Egyptian king's sense of value and foresight, he had the new copy etched into something more permanent-stone.


The Memphite Drama

Many of us may miss the mystical importance of the Memphite statement at first reading. It may take several readings and some mystical training to appreciate its message more fully. Following is a translation of its most important segment from Breasted's Dawn of Conscience:

"It came to pass that heart and tongue gained the power over every member, teaching that he (Ptah) was (in the form of the heart) in every breast and (in the form of the tongue) in every mouth, of all gods, all men, all cattle, all reptiles, (all) living, while he (Ptah) thinks and while he commands everything that he desires."

We are then told that the lesser gods, as forms of the great god Ptah "created the sight of the eyes, the hearing of the ears, the breathing of the nose, that they may transmit to the heart. It is he (the heart) who causes that every conclusion should come forth, it is the tongue which announces the thought of the heart. Thus all gods were fashioned, Atum and his Divine Ennead (group of nine gods), while every divine word came into being through that which the heart thought and the tongue command…"

A careful reading of the Memphite statement reveals a mystical process of creation. It simply states the heart gives birth to ideas or thoughts which are voiced, and creative actions follow.

Ptah, the Memphite creator god, did this originally. Mystics, through the centuries, have sought an in-depth attunement with the God of their hearts to partake in this creative process. Note, the heart and tongue are united. Both are God imbued.

Rosicrucians, whose traditional roots are in the ancient mystery schools of Egypt, con immediately see a source of their repeated ritualistic admonitions to love, light, and life. Modern mystics have further characterized this concept as heart, head, and hand.

Heart--Seat of the Soul

Modern science has been thoroughly confused as to what part of the body is the center of one's being. Even Descartes thought the soul might stem from the pineal gland. Others have stressed other areas as the possible seat of the soul. The ancient Egyptians believed it was the heart. The heart was the seat of the soul. The heart survived death and was accountable for the deeds of life. Modern society with its great concentration on the intellect continues to seek the center core of one's being somewhere in the brain. Yet, if we simply ask anyone to point to themselves, the results are truly amazing. Each one of us, including scientists, raises a hand and touches the heart area. Scientific findings to the contrary, we still think of ourselves basically as heart oriented.

Science has led us to think of the heart solely as a blood pump. However, mystics also look to the heart as a great psychic center. It is considered the God-center of man. It is here that mystics attune to the universal God--the God of our hearts.

Tongue--Seat of the Mind

Neurologists are amazed at the huge amount of brain area involved with our speech. This makes the brain, especially its left side, a great instrument of the tongue. Further, memory experts constantly tell us that speech (the use of tongue) is one of the best sharpeners of our minds and memories. Is it at all strange that mystery schools use mantras or vowel sounds to heighten psychic sensitivities?

Perhaps we should take more seriously an almost humorous response to the question, "What do you think? .... I don't know. I haven't had a chance to talk about it yet." Are words, tongue, and mind somewhat synonymous?

Hand-Seat o] Creation

Finally, the Memphite drama tells us when heart speaks through tongue, creation takes place. The statement does not assign a body part to creation. However, as man creates mostly through his hands, we can easily assign hands as the final symbol of this triune creative process.


Heart, Head, Hand
An Ancient Mystical Process

Again, mystics will quickly recognize the involvement of heart, head, and hand. Truly, the creation story is retold in numerous mystical rituals and mystical initiations. The temple itself is built around this idea of the heart center and the light from the East.

In a mystical sense, the Memphite drama may be telling us, the greater the heart consciousness, the greater the potential for cosmic enlightenment. The greater the cosmic illumination, the greater the creative potential. Truly, the greatest works of mystics have usually followed from those illuminations inspired by great heart contacts. Great writers, musicians, and artisans of every endeavor admonish us, to "write, sing, play, create from your heart!" A person who so lived from his/her heart was called, by the Egyptians, a true person. He or she was called a Makaru.

Is the Creator a huge psychic heart? Does He/She create through a huge psychic voice? Further, are we the Creator's instruments for creation?

Certainly our contact with God seems to involve our heart deeply. For centuries mystics have justly referred to the God of the heart. They have constantly sought this direct contact with the God of their heart.

So, in fact, do we find we are more creative when we heighten our contact with the God of our heart? Does this, then, give us more attunement with the Creator? Are we then inspired with good constructive ideas and speech to convey to hands capable of accomplishment or creation? I think so.

A 5000 Year Bond

All this and more is raised by the ideas expressed on the ancient Memphite stone. All this and more links Rosicrucians to the ancient Egyptian mystery schools. The Memphite stone creates a 5000 year bond between ancient and modern mystics.

Heart, Tongue, Creation
Love, Light, Life
Heart, Head, Hand

Truly, we cannot help but wonder. Is the awe-inspiring mysterious Sphinx ancient Egypt's greatest gift to us? Are the overwhelming pyramids, with their mys-sterious chambers, or the beautiful remnants of Pharaoh Tutankhamon's tomb ancient Egypt's greatest gifts? What about the Rosetta Stone which opened for us the meaning of all those ancient hieroglyphs? Is that stone ancient Egypt's greatest gift to mankind?

Or, as we read more and more into that old black, deeply worn Memphite stone slab---as we cull from it ideas that are vibrant at this very moment--are we not tempted to state, "Truly, this is ancient Egypt's greatest gift"?


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PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2004 7:23 pm 
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i'm not talking about religion neither about faith.

to me, the only documented sources about Exodus are from the holly scriptures... there we found sense of comfirmation that the event was once happened in the history of mankind.


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PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2004 11:34 pm 
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zampeada wrote:
so it the "prince".


I believe it was prince yes.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2004 11:36 am 
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No my friends, Rameses was NOT the Pharaoh of the Exodus. Vast amount of research on this subject has been done, and even Amenhotep II was not the Pharaoh of the Exodus.

Amenhotep III is the only possible Pharaoh of the Exodus. His mummy is the one that is not found, whereas Amenhotep II's mummy is well known.

Read this entire article:

http://www.arkdiscovery.com/redseastory.htm

http://www.aloha.net/~mikesch/moses.htm

Wyatt and his team provided data supporting this theory which makes more sense than any of them!

Dr. Lennart Moller, Research Scientist from Karolinska Instutute of Stockholm, Sweden has written a very well documented book, "The Exodus Case". The book goes into in-depth detail as to what Pharaohs were who during the time of the Exodus.

http://www.mahoneymedia.com/exodus/OrderBook/Index.html

I have three copies of this book :), but the old cover version.

http://www.leocordia.com/exodus/
(Old cover version)

http://exodusbook.com/
(New cover version)

Moller's new Television Series that will be out soon near the end of this year:

http://www.mahoneymedia.com/exodus/Vide ... Index.html

Watch BOTH videos! First starting with the Promo and then the Scenese from the Red Sea Crossing. Make sure you have the latest Quicktime installed.

Friend, we have some very mind-jolting information here! This strongly goes against traditional thinking, and these new ideas are beginning to take sway in the scientific world, and scientists, archeologists and egyptologists around the world are beginning to realize that there is more authenticity and validity to these theories and discoveries than originally had been supposed!


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2004 11:47 am 
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Lysimachus wrote:
No my friends, Rameses was NOT the Pharaoh of the Exodus. Vast amount of research on this subject has been done, and even Amenhotep II was not the Pharaoh of the Exodus.

Amenhotep III is the only possible Pharaoh of the Exodus. His mummy is the one that is not found, whereas Amenhotep II's mummy is well known.


Yo Lysimachus, i suggest you visit this site as it gives you the missing body of Amenhotep III
http://www.secker.fsbusiness.co.uk/amenhotep3.htm)

If getting on Tv, or publishing video tapes of your theory of Exodus was the proof all that was needed to be true. Why Dr. Rohl won about 10 years ago with his work. It was heavily supported by Discovery Channel it is no more correct and true than most of them particularly those using Shoshenq I as Shishak and 2nd Kings 6:1. Sorry Lysimachus try again please.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2004 3:21 pm 
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Ron's discoveries did go down, but I'm telling you now they are coming back up within the last several months. I tell you t his because I'm in the lime light, and this is why these documentaries are coming out.

About Amenhotep III's mummy, I've been aware of that article. However, there are other articles proving that there is no certain way of proving that this is his mummy.

However, if this is his mummy, perhaps his body was washed ashore in poor condition and the Egyptians retrieved it.

Remember, the Egyptians believed that there must be a mummy to embody the gods, and that a mummy is needed to enter the afterlife. Many times when there was no mummy, they used any mummy. As long as there was some mummy, it ensured the afterlife of whoever the tomb was meant to be.

What I want you people to see here is that the traditional chronology was originally built upon many assumptions, and from those assumptions it kept evolving. Go to any site that speaks of the traditional chronology, and you will see how many times the authors use the word "probably", "most likely", "possibly" and "hypotheses". This means they are unsure. The traditional chronology is unable to fit the scriptures, but if you use the Bible as your source (in the sense that Israel was not lying that they had an Exodus, and if you carefully count and calculate 480 years back from the ordaining of King Solomon in 970 BC, minus 4 years of his reign, we arrive at 1446 BC, in which there is a growing support for this approximate figure (taking into account that there are at least 25 years of uncertainty revolved around this date)), you will be able to line up the Pharaohs much more precisely.

Now you may ask, "how can this be, because Amenhotep III ruled from 1382 - 1344 BC?" That is because this is an entire subject in itself. The dating of this Pharaoh is way off, and because most egyptologists do not understand the "Thutmosis being the same person as Amenhotep" deal, these figures are automatically going to be off. Based on a lot of research from a number of sources, I have concluded that Thutmosis IV and Amenhotep III were the same persons, which allows Amenhotep III to slot right into our calculated time period.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2004 3:23 pm 
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Remember this too, we need a Pharaoh who was not a first born (since all the first born died in the 10th plauge), and we need a Pharaoh with a first born son (Tut was a first born).


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2004 3:29 pm 
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Another thing, Rameses falls so far off the 1446 BC date, it isn't even funny.

Take a look at the proposed chronology:

Image

Notice the 40 year span of which Moses is in Midian. Notice the lines pointing at Thutmosis III as the replacemnt of Thutmosis II (Moses) because now they lost the male heir, and needed a replacement. Hatshetsup is co-regent along with Moses, but a male is needed in order to embody the gods. So in order to get a male to the throne, Nefure, who changes to Hatshepsut when she become coregent has Thutmosis II as coregent with her so that a male may take the throne.

Take note of the color coded boxes. Yellow meaning the Pharaoh ruling in thebes, while the coregent (Thutmosis') ruled in Memphis. Was a large empire, and so this is how it was done. When Amenhotep passed off the scene, the heir as well as coregent assumed his new title from Thutmosis to Amenhotep. Later on, when chaos struck Egypt because of the Exodus, and Moses proved that the Egyptian gods are false, the dynasty deviated from the usual pattern (names) after Amenhotep III, so that is why the "Thutmosis/Amenhotep" syndrome died away, and since the gods proved to be false, we see a pattern here as to why Amenhotep IV changes his name to Akhenatan. As you see, he ruined the system. Traditional scientists take these Thutmosis' and Amenhotep's and place them as different pharaohs, and although it appears there are separate mummies for them a close analysis will reveal that various mummies were found and put in place to fill in the missing slots. Later on, I'll have to post an article concerning the mummy scandal.


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