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Papurus help
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 1:46 pm 
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On this papyrus:

On the vignette from a later papyrus of the book of the dead of Djedkbonsuiuef'ankh, kept at the Egyptian Museum in Cairo.

link here: http://www.archive.gr/publications/culture/nut.pdf

What is the symbol on the back of the sphinx under Nut's knee?

There is an author making absurd claims that it is a UFO. I would like to know what it really represents. Is it an ostrich fan, headdress, a tree?
Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 1:12 pm 
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I got a reply from the British Museum.

Thank you for your enquiry. The object on the sphinx's back is a feather fan. The fan suggests that the image of the sphinx is imbued with a divine presence, in this case it is also a convenient space filler.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 2:20 pm 
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And a reply from a college professor specializing in Egyptian symbolism.

Thanks for writing. I'll see what I can do to help. My first instinct in looking at the papyrus is to say that it's a lotus flower, but the leaves of the lotus tend to be wider and more closely clumped in Egyptian art than the figure on this papyrus. There's an outside chance that it's a subspecies of lotus, but I doubt it, as depictions of the lotus remained fairly constant throughout Egyptian history.

I can concieve of three ways in which you may be able to discover what the object is, but they may require a good bit of research, so it depends on how important this identification is to the thesis of your research. I don't know if you're already gone down these paths, but these may be good avenues to pursue:

1. The caption underneath the image mentions that this is a vignette from the Book of the Dead. You might access a translation of the Book of the Dead (I would recommend Raymond O. Faulkner's, and that you steer clear of E.A. Wallis Budge at all costs) and try to match up this vignette with the images in Faulkner's book. Faulkner's translation includes tons of pictures, so you're likely to find it, and the presence of Nut will make this image really stand out when you're flipping through the pages. Once you find the image, there may well be a description of the object in the translation; as you may know, the Egyptians were incredibly descriptive when they wrote religious texts, much to the advantage of modern day researchers :)

2. The caption mentions the name of the Egyptian whom this vignette is written for, and that it is housed in the Egyptian Museum of Cairo. You might go to the Egyptian Museum's website and see if you can do an online search of their collections, by typing in the name of the Egyptian. Depending on the quality of their catalogue records, there may be a description of the sphinx and the object on its back.

3. If you can't find the object on the Egyptian Museum website, you might Google the name of the Egyptian mentioned in the caption. Be sure to do it in quotes --- "[Name of Egyptian]", and you may find that other researchers have used the papyrus in their studies. Maybe they have analyzed the image for its artistic symbolism. I doubt you'd have to comb through many search results, as this papyrus is probably the only mention of this Egyptian's name that has survived antiquity.

4. If all else fails (or, maybe you could start with this), you can always track down a professional Egyptologist who specializes in papyrology and ask them the same question. They may or may not respond, however --- academics can be fickle helpers.

In reference to your crackpot author, he's no doubt one of the many conspiracy theorists who also believe that aliens built the pyramids for the Egyptians, or some other such nonsense. However, if you're trying to use this specific papyrus to refute his argument, I would caution you --- the sphinx in this papyrus is not likely *the* Sphinx of Giza. Rather, the Egyptians were probably using the sphinx form in a metaphorical sense (as can be seen in the many sculptures of pharaohs as sphinxes), or it may be a representation of one of the goddesses who appeared in sphinx form in mythology, such as Sekhmet.

However, refuting a claim that UFOs landed on the back of the Sphinx shouldn't be too hard to do otherwise --- what a claim! The burden of proof is definitely on the guy who thinks aliens hung out with Khufu. :) If you do discover what the object on his back is, let me know. I'm always eager to add another piece of information to my Egyptian symbolism repetoire.

I'm glad my research was of assistance, and I was happy to help with your query. Good luck with your detective work!


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 8:42 pm 
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The author responds"
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-Wayne Herschel- ?:
SCHOLARS STILL UNABLE TO DENY UFO
ON 3000 YR OLD EGYPTIAN PAPYRUS RECORD

CNN iReport - The story has been updated last week and is now monitored by CNN moderators after attackers posing as petty angry sceptics using wild claims of it being a hoax are still alive and well. Other media are busy evaluating the claim this ...week. The story is currently being passed between some very proud Egyptologists hoping they will soon agree to comment. Media are asking if it is 'wrongly interpreted' then please define exactly how it should be interpreted.

I cant see this happening very soon because every scholar that dared to comment on any form of story on the paranormal in a positive way have paid severely in their professional circles.

No proud scholar will risk his name being a reference to any paranormal interpretation and especially refute this well referenced and consistent interpretation because professional worldly ethics are as follows for any scholar:

UFO's have not been proven to exist and will be treated as fiction until further notice.

Scholars also insist the Ancient Egyptian claims of 'god like' beings flying in ships that come from the stars... are liars. If that is true... then the Sumerians, Maya, Inca, Olmecs, Aztecs, Indus and almost every early civilization would also have to be... liars.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 8:01 am 
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This is the reason I questioned the papyrus. The South African calls the Egyptians liars if they don't follow his line of reasoning and was trying to analyze his reasoning to either dispute or verify. His belief is that the ancients worshiped a star and not the sun. Of course its the authors star that he has researched.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-Wayne Herschel- ‎:
CNN iReport - image ref used "Ship of Ra landing on Sphinx"
Full story: http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-477668

The traditional story that followed many years after the much earlier 3000 yr old papyrus depiction of the detailed flying disc ship of the 'god' Ra shown on the CNN iReport. Here the ship was celebrated tradit...ionally as a barque... a boat. The texts that accompany the stela depiction say he sailed down from the stars. Were the Egyptians liars or did they emotionally celebrate the truth? The full story is in video format in the CNN iReport and available for all news media usage.


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