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Tut's father
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2002 1:13 am 
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CAn anyone speculate as to why some people think Tut's father may have been Amenhotep III rather than Akhenaten. Tut was only 9 when he came to the throne. Akhenaten reigned for nearly 20 years. Tut was obviously fathered during that time.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2002 6:08 pm 
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Ha! Someone else who sees the logic of the situation!!! I can never figure out why people think that Amunhotep III was Tut's father, it's impossible!

I actually don't know why some think that Amunhotep was Tut's father. Except that maybe it was an old concept before they knew a lot about Akhenaten or when he ruled, so they assumed that Tut was the son of Amunhotep because they had no other relative to place him with, and no one ever dropped the theory even after it was proven wrong.

-Akhenaten-


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2002 12:46 am 
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That's a good point because I have some books that still mention him as the father. Am reading 'The Death of Tutankhamun' and that has Amenhotep III as the father.

Stupid really.

Who do you think was the mother? Lots of theories on that. As you probably guessed I am a fan of the Kiya theory. Tiye has been put forward, i've seen Baketamon's name in ne book and Sitamun quite a few times. All with Amenhotep!!!!!!


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2002 2:44 pm 
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I think that Kiya was his mother. I don't know why, though. It was just the first thing I read about Tutankhamen's parents, that they were Akhenaten and Kiya, so that's what I think.
It would be very interesting if there were a breakthrough in Egyptology and we could solve this mystery :-)

Oh, and that one wall carving, with the lady holding the child, was that at the death of Meritateten or Kiya? Or does anybody know for sure? Just wondering.

-Akhenaten-


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2002 1:39 am 
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Yes it was the first thing I read to so it was the theory I stuck to.
I was reading a book recently. Can't remember which one off the top of my head but it refers to the wall carvings at Armarna, specifically the one of Meketaten dying in childbirth with Nefertiti and Akhenaten mourning at her bedside. It is Meketaten yes but what this book says, and what isn't mentioned too often is that there is a second wall carving with a childbirth death bed scene. Now I can't remember for sure whether it mentions Kiya or not but I think it does. It is definately not Meketaten in this carving.
I may be getting some facts slightly mixed here but I know for certain there was a second scene and a second woman.
Will try and check this weekend.


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tut's mother
PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2002 10:41 pm 
:shock: tut's mother was said to be nefertiti


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2002 12:21 am 
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Actually I not seen one book that says Nefertiti was Tuts father in fact we are fairly certain she wasn't. Nefertiti is always portrayed with her daughters and nowhere is it ever mentioned that she gave birth to a son. Ok this doesn't rule her out but the generally accepted theory is that 'the Royal Favourite' Kiya was his mother. Some believe that Tye or maybe one of her daughters i.e. Sitamun may have been his mother but the Kiya theory is very popular.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2002 6:45 pm 
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Yes, I've always heard the Kiya Theory the most, too. I've never heard of Nefertiti being Tutankhamen's father.

-Akhenaten-


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2003 2:37 pm 
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Apparently one of the reasons egyptologist have thought that Amonhotep III might be Tutankhamon's father is because of a large statue of a lion in the Cairo Museum that has an inscription on it where Tutankhamon refer's to Amonhotep III as his father.Others however say that this word could also be meant as ancestor,some also believe that if Amonhotep made Akhenaten co-regent and they ruled together for about 5 years that Tutankhamon might have been born shotly before or after his death.I believe the theory however that Tutankhamon was Akhenaten's son probably by a secondary wife,perhaps Kiya.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2003 7:11 pm 
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Maybe he meant grandfather.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2003 9:21 pm 
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I have learned in some of my studies that in ancient times that when referring to a father, grandfather, great-grandfather, etc., he was always referred to as "Father," never anything else. So the theory about the Lion is pretty unstable as to proving that Amunhotep III was Tutankhamen's father, but also means that Tutankhamen WAS related to the royal family, so he WAS a son of SOMEONE royal, whether it turns out to Amunhotep, Akhenaten, or whomever else that we may find out about in the future.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2003 11:19 am 
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I do believe that akhenaten was Tut's father but to play devils advocate, if the was indeed a co-regency between Akhenaten and his father, and lets say for a second that it was a long one, about 12 years. If Tut was fathered during the last few years of the co-regency and then Akhenaten reign for a further 5 years on his own (he reigned for about 17 years in total) Tut could be Amenhotep's father, maybe by one of his daughters or even Tiy. We know she gave birth to a daughter late in life, princess Baketaten.

And on the subject of the deathbed scene, whether it is Kiya or Meketaten. Well according to Cyril Aldred in his book 'Akhenaten' there are two separate deathbed scenes. One shows Meketaten the other person is unknown. More than likely Kiya. A royal child was scene be carried away as in the death scene of Meketaten.


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Tut's parents
PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2004 12:55 am 
If Kiya was Tut's mom why would he allow his wife to deface his mother's pictures and sun temple with reliefs of herself?
Never in Egyptian history was this allowed! The King's mother was greatly honored even if she was dead at the time of her son's succession. This is one aspect of the WHO the MOM was of Tut question. That the supporters of Kiya can never answer satisfactory. Any attempts here?
Why not Nefertiti? As his mother there is an appropriate time break between the births of her younger daughters where a son could have been born.
OH WAIT well yes, no sons were ever shown playing with their parents Nefertiti and Akhenaten. OH WELL, how many here know that Akhenaten's dad and mom. The parents of 2 sons never showed their sons, while their daughters Amenophis and Tiye gloried in showing off their daughters in temple scenes.
Let us consider now for a minute.... We have a King starting a real change in the relationship to the Gods.
He has a commoner wife who gives him only daughters. Right....
Traditionally, wives of Kings of Egypt became Great Royal Wife because she cemented her husbands line with a royal male heir. Only Nefertiti didn't, according to modern legend she gave him only daughters to carry on his religious changes. She made him love her so that having a male heir by a secondary wife was okay. She kept the highest ranking title of a female in Pharaoh's court because he loved her the commoner so much. It was such a great love affair that even that wife's sons allowed their mother's images , names to be removed so that the daughter of Nefertiti could write her name. Right
And what happened to the names, images of Nefertiti when Smenkhare, and Tutankhamen came to the throne?
Why they remained intact. This tells me she was their mother like nothing else does.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2004 3:53 am 
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Ok i'll have a stab. Tut was barely nine years old when he came to the throne, and Ankhesenamun was only a couple of years older, both practically still children. i. It could be that he was so used to doing as she said, being married from such a young age, that he never thought to question her actions. Also, even though he was royal, he may have been so used to being in the background that he never questioned his wife's actions perhaps thinking that she, being older and more experienced of court life, would know better.
ii. If Kiya did indeed die in childbirth that Tut never really new her. With no emotional attachment to think of he would naturally be more inclined to have inscriptions of his wife rather than some woman he never had the chance to know.
''And what happened to the names, images of Nefertiti when Smenkhare, and Tutankhamen came to the throne you say?
Why they remained intact. This tells me she was their mother like nothing else does.''
Well I have a similar example of something happening although here I have to admit it is much later, during the time of the Ptolemies who, as we know, we much influenced by Greek culture. I mean Ptolemy II and Arsinoe II. Ptolemy's children were actually by Arsinoe I but in reliefs showing Ptolemy III he is seen honouring his 'parents' Ptolemy II and Arsinoe II.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2004 6:28 am 
1.Your talking one henpecked Divine Pharaoh here. Kiya.
2.I did appreciate your comparision with the Ptolomies.

As for Kiya being Tut's mom show me an atestment to that fact. And i will believe. Meanwhile i will look upon what is the remains of Kiya's funeray goods. Her made over coffin that was used for a man and sealed in Queen Tiyes burial chamber closed and sealed forever by Tut.

There is no, none, zip, mention of Kiya anywhere in Tut's life. Not even in his tomb. Where there are mentions of Tiye, and one of Akhenaten's other daughters by Nefertiti.

My point Kiya is that the real Kiya was to disrespected after death to be a pharaohs mother. Whether or not Tut had any affection or memories of her. The Egyptian myth at that time required that the mother of Pharaoh was recongized and treated with respect. Show me where poor Kiya got any respect.

In life, she doesn't even rate being a wife just the favorite. In death say, she did die giving birth to Tut, she doesn't even rate elevation since this is what son number 1,or maybe 2!

There is reason to believe that Tuthmosis III elevated his common concubine mother to that of God's Wife after her death! Women in Ancient Egypt, by Gay Robbins, Harvard Publishing, 1993. pg 150.

Then there is the fact that whereas everyother Great Royal Wife gave her husband a son. Nefertiti didn't, but she got the title anyway. Why? Because he loved her? She cooperated with his religious reforms? Again it sounds more like Victorian and it is Victorian fiction than Late Bronze Age Royal Egyptian Reality, Kiya.

I am sorry if Late Bronze Age Reality takes the fun, joy, specialness out of it for you or anyone else. But facts ought to be faced and reasonable answers if not popular should be given.


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