Ancient Egyptian Forum • View topic

Selket · **Posted:** Tue Jun 14, 2005 4:34 pm

Seriously,who was he?
I know that he was a pharaoh from obscure(peasent?)beginings,and that he was a well known general during the reigns of Akenaton and Tutankamun.
But is there something we are missing?
Is there some reason why he hated the Amarna period so much?Maybe because they ignored foreign threats and cut the military budget so much that he just couldn't stand them?

Ankhenaton-Horemhab may have been disgusted at all the bad events that happened.Egypt lost territory during this time.

Ay-He was used.The old advisor used the general to further his political career.Who do you think persuaded Horemhab to ambush the Hittites?

Smenkhare-Was Nefertiti,so it is against the forces of maat.

Tutankamun-He had to restore those old temples,move the capital back to Thebes,etc. Took a toll on the treasury.Also the Hittites were starting to look like a threat.

I don't think Horemhab was evil,after all he appointed RamsesI to be his sucsessor.

coolgirl808 · **Posted:** Tue Jun 14, 2005 4:42 pm

hmmm may if look that person up on the web maybe you'll get some info

the_tutness_is_here · **Posted:** Tue Jun 14, 2005 4:55 pm

Oh, Lord...this ought to be rich... :lol:

Well, let's take this step by step, cause I got something to say about your analysis:

I agree that Horemheb might have been rather pissed about the lack of military activity during Akhenaten's reign, due to the fact that the Heretic pharaoh was also a PEACEFUL pharaoh, and did not really believe in violence, he believed that everyone was equal under the Aten. Horemheb could be frustrated by Akhenaten's vision, because the pharaoh was seen as weak in the militia department.

Secondly, I never heard of Ay using Horemheb...that's news to me, to be honest with you. It was suggested, when the craze about Tut being murdered was still going on--I don't know if it still is, given the CT scans and such--that both Ay and Horemheb could have conspired against the boy-king. Besides, Ay was old, and only ruled for 4 years, then Horemheb came to power. What would he have to complain about if Ay left the throne to Horemheb?

Next, Smenkhare was NOT Nefertiti, as recent studies suggest. There's the mummy in KV55 to be observed, and Nefertit's mummy was found somewhere else. (The Valley of the Kings, I think...I need someone to refresh me on that... :wink:

).

And finally, Tut. Well, true, he moved the capital back. But I think Horemheb saw Tut weak as well, like his father Akhenaten, and Horemheb felt that if something needed to be done right, you had to do it yourself. He was probably a strict and tough general, not exactly "Evil", but still might have been power-hungry.

That's all my opinions. And just because he started the Ramssiside line, doesn't make him "Evil". :shock:

If THAT'S what you meant. :wink:

coolgirl808 · **Posted:** Tue Jun 14, 2005 4:59 pm

now that what I call long reply

the_tutness_is_here · **Posted:** Tue Jun 14, 2005 5:10 pm

I know, I know...but that's what I had to get off my chest!! :lol:

Selket · **Posted:** Tue Jun 14, 2005 5:11 pm

I don't think he's evil at all. I generally love soldiers. Captain America fangirl here.

the_tutness_is_here · **Posted:** Tue Jun 14, 2005 5:13 pm

Captain America, yaaaay!! :lol:

I thought that you were Implying that Horemheb was evil, but since you cleared it up, then it's all good!! ^_^

coolgirl808 · **Posted:** Tue Jun 14, 2005 5:18 pm

Lostris · **Posted:** Wed Jun 15, 2005 4:58 am

Well I don't think Horemheb was evil. Maybe he was self-conscious and he wanted to be the pharaoh, but we can't say anyone's 'evil' or 'good' in ancient Egypt, because we don't really know the correct facts and Horemheb's thoughts, and that's not only true for the Amarna ages - it's true for the whole history. And I don't think Horemheb murdered anyone from the royal family - like king Tut, Aye or prince Zannanza (you know the guy from Hatti - Ankhesenamen wanted to marry with Zannanza, but somebody killed him on the way to Thebes). And Tut and Aye tried it, too, but who really made Egypt to glitter again in its old shrine - were Horemheb and Sethi I. Tut was too young and Aye and Rameses I were too old to do it. So Horemheb was a young soldier when Akhenaten ruled Egypt, so his same-old friend, Rameses I was extremely old (if he borned in the same time with Akhenaten the math is:

Akhenaten, Horemheb, Rameses born
+18-20 years: Akhenaten is a prince
+ 17 years: Akhenaten is a pharaoh
+ 2 Smenkhare's rule (or joint rule with Akhenaten)
+ 9-10 years: Tut's rule
+ 4 years: Aye
+ 28 years: Horemheb's rule

So Rameses I was about 80 - 81 when he started his rule.
And Horemheb was 53 when he started his.
Nice years, because Egyptian man generally died when they were 40-45 years old.

rich · Joined:Mon May 09, 2005 1:01 pm Posts:71

There is apparently a flood during the time of Horemheb, and also a "destruction of mankind" myth attributed to Seti I.

There is the greek myth of Hercules killing Busiris and Amphidamas.... many people attribute this myth to Seti killing Horemheb and Ramses.

Note: There is an alternate explanation as well, that this was really King Aeetes, in the egyptian colony of Colchis.

There is also the theory that: Seti vs Horemheb was viewed similar to Seth vs. Horus.

There is a myth of how horus(not osiris) drowns in the Nile. This could easily be Horemheb. Seth is sometimes viewed as Typhon, or Poseidon. This could also be related to Horemheb's drowning.

Kiya · Joined:Wed Sep 25, 2002 1:08 am Posts:442 Location: Derby

Originally posted by Selket

Quote:

Is there some reason why he hated the Amarna period so much?Maybe because they ignored foreign threats and cut the military budget so much that he just couldn't stand them?

I think it was for the same reason that Tut and his wife changed their name, the same reason that Tuthmosis III eradicated Hatshepsut's monuments later in his reign. Politics! the Amarna period was seen as heresy aganist the land and the gods. It would not have been politically valid to continue to endorse the Amarna period.

I do aggree that as head of the army it must have been frustrating to watch the empire gradually crumble due to inaction on akhenaten's part.

Originally posted by the_tutness_is_here

Quote:

he believed that everyone was equal under the Aten.

Well that isn't really true. He believed that he was the High Priest of Aten and no one could worship Aten except through him and the royal family. He totally restricted access to the 'new god'.

JOY! · Joined:Sat Apr 23, 2005 3:30 pm Posts:55

Quote:

So Rameses I was about 80 - 81 when he started his rule.

are you sure? I always thought Rameses I was younger than Horemheb. And that he may have died in his late 50's or early 60's?
Didn't the ramesside pharaohs also erase some of Horemheb's monuments? probably Seti or Rameses II..I recall hearing something of that nature. I wonder why? :twisted:

Kiya · Joined:Wed Sep 25, 2002 1:08 am Posts:442 Location: Derby

Yeah I think he was in his sixties!

tnrees · **Posted:** Fri Apr 07, 2006 6:06 am

Many pharohs seem to have stolen earlier monuments so obliterating someones name may not mean they objected to them just that they wanted to glorify themselves.

Kiya · Joined:Wed Sep 25, 2002 1:08 am Posts:442 Location: Derby

Yeah Tut seemed to be perfectly happy leading the army and left Hatshepsut to run the country. He didn't start defacing her monuments until years after her death. I wouldn't be surprised if he'd been a frightened little boy, totally in awe of his aunt/step mother/mother-in-law and was too scared to take on the reigns of leadership. Why else would she have left him alive when the political thing to do would have been to murder him?