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Akhenaten and Moses
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 11:28 am 
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I am kind of new here and I hope I am asking a relavent question.

I am some way into Keith Laidler's book 'The Head of God' and am intrigued by the what is stated in the first few chapters. Although the book is primarily about templaric worship of the head, Laidler touches upon research made my Sigmud Freud concerning Moses and the Akhenaten-Moses connection, made by Egyptologist Ahmed Osman. Freud suggests that Moses was in fact an Egyptian, drawing attention to his name being of possible Egyptian origin and the unlikelyhood of the 'baby on boat' scenario described in the bible. The flaw, of course, is his 'unegyptian' obsession with monotheism :P this is the natural link to Akhenaten.

Several similarities are outlined, such as Akhenaten's Hebrew ancestry. The theory is that after his disappearance, after the fall of the Amarna kings, he returned to Egypt, only to leave again - this time leading the Exodus. The word Aten is suggested to be the root of the spoken name of God, Adonai - 'ai' being the added Hebrew pronoun and Adon being the direct character translation of Aten (e and t turn into d and o). Other similarities are also outlined: such as the snake staff of Akhenaten (as pharaoh) and the snake/staff of Moses, sacrifice of egyptian 'abominations' (sacred animals) and exile and return from and into Egypt.

I know the idea of Nefertiti married to Moses can seem rather far-fetched but I can do nothing but stay back and claim ignorance. I really don't know much about the subject, the dates or the whether or not what Laidler writes is full of inaccuracies and anachronisms. I hope you will be able to shed some light on this though.


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Re: Akhenaten and Moses
PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2004 1:31 am 
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Buzrael wrote:
I am kind of new here and I hope I am asking a relavent question.

I am some way into Keith Laidler's book 'The Head of God' and am intrigued by the what is stated in the first few chapters. Although the book is primarily about templaric worship of the head, Laidler touches upon research made my Sigmud Freud concerning Moses and the Akhenaten-Moses connection, made by Egyptologist Ahmed Osman. Freud suggests that Moses was in fact an Egyptian, drawing attention to his name being of possible Egyptian origin and the unlikelyhood of the 'baby on boat' scenario described in the bible. The flaw, of course, is his 'unegyptian' obsession with monotheism :P this is the natural link to Akhenaten.

Several similarities are outlined, such as Akhenaten's Hebrew ancestry. The theory is that after his disappearance, after the fall of the Amarna kings, he returned to Egypt, only to leave again - this time leading the Exodus. The word Aten is suggested to be the root of the spoken name of God, Adonai - 'ai' being the added Hebrew pronoun and Adon being the direct character translation of Aten (e and t turn into d and o). Other similarities are also outlined: such as the snake staff of Akhenaten (as pharaoh) and the snake/staff of Moses, sacrifice of egyptian 'abominations' (sacred animals) and exile and return from and into Egypt.

I know the idea of Nefertiti married to Moses can seem rather far-fetched but I can do nothing but stay back and claim ignorance. I really don't know much about the subject, the dates or the whether or not what Laidler writes is full of inaccuracies and anachronisms. I hope you will be able to shed some light on this though.


Hi Buzrael! Welcome to KingTutOne!

When Sigmud Freud did his study on Akhenaten, and Moses there was some reason for his belief. There wasn't a whole lot known about Akhenaten and his religious revolution. Unlike today, where it is now known that Akhenaten didn't start a monotheist religion but replaced the middlemen, ie priests, with himself and royal family, and eliminated the old gods in favor of the Aten. Easier for the royal family to conduit to one god for everyone than a bunch of gods. So from new information we can see that all those theories based upon Freud's including Ahmed Osman, are built on a falsehood.

I am not familiar with Keith Laidler book so i can't really say to much. Except to caution you in accepting anything that is based upon the falsehood of Freud's outdated and proven wrong theory.

There is no evidence from the late 18th dynasty that Egypt laid broken, ruined, and depopulated as Exodus states it did. When Moses did lead his people out of Egypt. This should sounds chimes of caution as well.

There are no signs of Canaanite Conquest by the escaping Hebrews in the late 18th, or even early 19th dynasty. Which should again sound chimes of caution.

The best answer as to why all expects look to these 2 dynasty's as the time of the Exodus. Is because traditional Biblical or Christian chronology places it in this time. What isn't well known is that this chronology dates as far back as the 3rd century AD and traces its roots back even further back into the 3rd century BC (Greek historians) and the 1st century AD(Jewish historians). Here is an most interesting field of study that isn't studied as it should. How Biblical, Christian chronology came about, and what supports it.

Archaeology itself tells us that the chronology as used by the experts don't agree with the Bible itself. Instead of saying that is because the Bible if wrong, they really ought to consider the ancient source of the chronology that is used.

I hope this is a help. Again welcome to KingTutOne!


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2004 3:19 pm 
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thanks, thats exactly the help I was looking for :D


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2005 4:02 am 
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Ummmm also Moses if the bible is correct was the son of a israelite slaves but was sent along the nile river which wound up at the pharaohs palace, the pharaoh took him on as a son and a brother to Rameses II i think :D correct me if im wrong lol. Also if you look on another post here it has a world article of a chariot wheel found in the red sea. I believe in the bible as far as it is translated correctly however.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 16, 2005 7:36 pm 
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Quote:
When Sigmud Freud did his study on Akhenaten, and Moses there was some reason for his belief. There wasn't a whole lot known about Akhenaten and his religious revolution. Unlike today, where it is now known that Akhenaten didn't start a monotheist religion but replaced the middlemen, ie priests, with himself and royal family, and eliminated the old gods in favor of the Aten. Easier for the royal family to conduit to one god for everyone than a bunch of gods. So from new information we can see that all those theories based upon Freud's including Ahmed Osman, are built on a falsehood


Sekhmet, would you be able to lead me in the direction of somewhere where there is some proof about akhenaten? all i have been able to find is heresay about the reason behind getting rid of the 'middlemen'.

cheers

daz


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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2005 10:54 pm 
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One god, Aten, Monotheism, period.

"So from new information we can see that all those theories based upon Freud's including Ahmed Osman, are built on a falsehood. "
-- How do you come to this conclusion?

If you go with the Slave theory, then you go with Akhenaten's general Mermose.


Last edited by rich on Sun May 15, 2005 6:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2005 4:25 am 
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it was not "monotheism"!..the other gods were still there....the most important change was that according to the new theory, Aton was the most important of all. Period.


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PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2005 6:16 am 
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"the other gods were still there"
--really?

"eliminated the old gods in favor of the Aten. "

http://www.kingtutone.com/akhenaten/
"Akhenaten acknowledged that Aten was the single god except Re, the sun god. He claimed he was the only person able to converse to his god. This only caused an absence of priests and he soon banned them. He banned the worship of Amon and closed down sacred temples."


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PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2005 8:46 am 
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it was about the priests of Amon who became too powerful....the other gods were still there.


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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2005 6:34 am 
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Maybe both views are right :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akhenaten
"The early stage of Atenism appears a kind of henotheism familiar in Egyptian religion, but the later form suggests a proto-monotheism."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atenism
"Akhenaten's reforms cut away both the philosophical and economic bases of priestly power, abolishing the cults of multiple deities, and with them the large and lucrative industry of sacrifices and tributes that the priests controlled."

"Initially Akhenaten presented Aten as a variant of the familiar supreme deity Amun-Ra (itself the result of an earlier rise to prominence of the cult of Amun, resulting in Amun becoming merged with the sun god Ra), in an attempt to put his ideas in a familiar Egyptian religious context. Indeed Aten is the name given to the solar disk, whereas the full title of Akhenaten's god was Ra-Horus, who rejoices in the horizon in his name of the light which is in the sun disk. (This is the title of the god as it appears on the numerous stelae which were placed to mark the boundaries of Akhenaten's new capital at Akhetaten.) However in Year 9 of his reign Akhenaten declared a more radical version of his new religion by declaring Aten not merely the supreme god, but the only god, and that he, Akhenaten, was the only intermediary between the Aten and his people. He even staged the ritual regicide of Amun, and ordered the defacing of Amun's temples throughout Egypt."

"In Year 9 Akhenaten strengthened the Atenist regime, declaring the Aten not merely the supreme god but actually the only god, a universal deity, and forbidding worship of all others, including the veneration of idols, even privately in people's homes - an arena the Egyptian state had previously not touched in religious terms."

"Aten's name is also written differently after Year 9, to emphasise the radicalism of the new regime. No longer is the Aten written using the symbol of a rayed solar disc, but instead it is spelt phonetically."


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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2005 7:12 am 
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atenism

"There is no evidence from the late 18th dynasty that Egypt laid broken, ruined, and depopulated as Exodus states it did. When Moses did lead his people out of Egypt. This should sounds chimes of caution as well. "

--"The context appears to have been an Egypt hit by catastrophe,
seeming abandoned by the old gods: a series of pandemics is known to have occurred throughout the Near East of this period"


"There are no signs of Canaanite Conquest by the escaping Hebrews in the late 18th, or even early 19th dynasty. Which should again sound chimes of caution. "

--"The Amarna letters tell of a band of rebels, referred to as the Apiru, who were reported to be wreaking havoc in the empire. This reference has led to speculation that the report may be one of the earliest historical references to the Hebrew tribes."


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