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King Tut's Face
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2002 6:08 pm 
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Hey you guys....go look at this site http://www.sciencemuseum.org.uk/antenna/tutankhamun/ They made a model of what they think king tut looked like..very cool! Any comments would be great:)

Later


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KING TUT
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2002 7:43 pm 
WELL I HAVE TO SAY AS AFRICAN AMERICAN WHO WAS TOLD BY MORE THAN ONE PROFESSOR THAT TUT WAS NOT A BLACK MAN HE WAS ANYTHING BUT......ITS SWEET. I THANK GOD THAT I KNEW BETTER. :D


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2002 9:12 pm 
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How can people think that Ancient Egyptians were not black or Middle Eastern looking? It’s a known fact that back then skin color was not an issue. The name of the game back then was “who could bark the loudest was given the power”. Besides, one has to take into consideration that Egypt is the gateway between Africa and the Middle East, so it’s pretty evident it’s a melting pot. So I personally believe Ancient Egyptians, poor and royalty, had the best of both cultures. That’s what made Egypt so great and so prosperous, so much so, that they could focus of expanding and producing a rich culture.


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TUT ...REPLY
PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2002 12:20 am 
I DO NOT KNOW IF YOU ARE OF AFRICAN AMERICAN DESCENT. IT SHOULD NOT MATTER HOWEVER, YOU MUST UNDERSTAND THAT MANY BLACK CHILDREN ARE TOLD THAT EGYPT IS NOT EVEN PART OF AFRICA. THE CONTINENT HAS BEEN DIVIDED INTO SUB SAHARAN AND NORTHERN AFRICA. THIS IS DONE FOR A REASON. AND YES IT MAKES A DIFFERENCE TODAY, TO ME, AS WELL AS OTHER AFRICAN AMERICAN PEOPLE.



WHEN I WAS IN HIGH SCHOOL, I WAS TOLD THAT EGYPTIANS WERE NOT BLACK THEY WERE "MIXED" KING TUT WAS MIXED, HIS DEATH MASK, WAS JUST THAT A MASK. YOU WERE TOLD THAT BEING DECEDENTS OF WEST AFRICA YOU DID NOT LOOK ANYTHING LIKE EGYPTIANS. WHEN I GOT TO COLLEGE IT WAS NO DIFFERENT. I REMEMBER SADAT, AND HOW MY TEACHERS WOULD SAY OH HE IS NOT BLACK AND THE MAN WAS BLACKER THAN ME I ALWAYS FOUND THAT FUNNY. I ALWAYS FOUND THE GAME AMUSING. I HAD TO THE SENSE NOT TO BELIEVE IT! THAT'S NICE AND YES IT MAKES ME PROUD TO KNOW WHAT THE REAL STORY

SO I GUESS YOU MAY NOT UNDERSTAND THE FEELING I GET. THE CONNECTION I SEE FROM SOMEONE WHO LOOKS LIKE ME THAT STRONG WIDE NOSE AND FULL LIPS AND BROWN SKIN. SOMETHING THAT I HAVE ALWAYS BELIEVED IN MY HEART AND WHAT SOME HAVE TO COME TO GRIPS WITH.



BELIEVE IT OR NOT A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK JESUS HAD BLUE EYES AND BLOND HAIR. AND I WILL NEVER FORGET DURING THE 10 COMMANDMENTS WATCHED AS A CHILD THE LINE THAT MOSES SOON TO BE WIFE SAYS MY "SKIN IS NOT AS WHITE AS THE EGYPTIANS QUEENS" AND THE ACTRESS HAS BLOND HAIR AND LIGHT EYES.

AFRICAN AMERICANS AS WELL AS AFRICANS THROUGH THE DIASPORA HAVE BEEN TOLD THAT WE HAVE NO GREATNESS WE ARE THE DECEDENTS OF SAVAGES, UNEDUCATED PEOPLE ,IT TAKES A STRONG MIND AND SOUL NOT TO BELIEVE THAT. IT IS DONE SO TODAY BUT IN SETTLE WAY. SO IF I GET A BIT EMOTIONAL IT IS NOT MY INTENTION, BUT I KNOW THAT ALSO A NUMBER WHITE PEOPLE ARE "SHOCKED" BY THIS. BECAUSE YOU SEE THE HISTORY AND IT IS "HIS-STORY" HAS BEEN SENT FOR A LOOP. ITS HARD FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO FEEL THEY ARE SUPERIOR TO HAVE THE RUG TAKEN OUT FORM THEM. THE CRADLE OF LIFE ITSELF BEGAN IN AFRICA. THEY TOO THE VERY ONES THAT HATE ME FOR MY SKIN COLOR HAVE THIER ROOTS IN AFRICA, AND FOR SOME IT TOUGH TO DEAL WITH, VERY TOUGH!



I KNEW A MAN FROM JORDAN WHEN I WENT TO COLLEGE ,I ASKED HIM OUT I HAD TO KNOW WHAT DID THE PEOPLE LOOK LIKE WERE THEY DARK, HE LOOKED AT ME ODDLY WHEN I ASKED WHAT DID THEY LOOK LIKE HE SAID THEY LOOKED LIKE YOU. THEY WERE SOME THAT WERE LIGHT SKINNED BUT MOST HAVE AFRICAN FEATURES. YOU SEE, YOU DON'T HEAR THAT TOO OFTEN.



SO WHEN I SEE THAT FACE I FEEL THE CONNECTION I KNOW HE LOOKS LIKE ME AND YOU HAVE TO KNOW WHERE I'M COMING FROM TO FEEL THAT BUT IT IS A GLORIOUS FEELING.



IN PARTING - KING TUT WAS NOT JUST AN EGYPTIAN KING HE WAS AN AFRICAN KING. HE WAS AFRICAN.... JUST LIKE ME!!! ITS NICE VERY NICE


PS- Besides, one has to take into consideration that Egypt is the gateway between Africa and the Middle East, so it’s pretty evident it’s a melting pot

REPLY - WHAT GATEWAY???? EGYPT IS PART OF AFRICA AND ITS RULERS WERE AFRICAN , KING TUT LIKE HIS FATHER BEFORE HIM AND HIS FATHER BEFORE HIM WERE NOT MIXED THEY WERE BLACK, SO MUCH SO THAT IF YOU TOOK THEM AND PLACED THEM ON THE JERSEY TURNPKIE , WELL LETS SEE HOW MANY TIMES THEY WOULD BE STOPPED BY POLICE. GET MY DRIFT. I SEE THAT THERE WILL BE SOME WHITE PEOPLE WHO ARE GOING TO HAVE A ROUGH TIME WITH THIS ONE I WISH THEM LUCK THEY WILL NEED IT BUT IN THE END "ITS ALL GOOD" :wink:


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2002 3:53 pm 
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Wow, very cool (and quite handsome no less!).
This is especially exciting (for me) as some of the guys involved are from NZ. Hooray for my country. :D

Cheers.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2002 1:34 am 
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I just started a part-time egyptology course and interestingly enough, the instuctor refered to egypt as being part of western Asia.

Your right about it being a melting pot though. Native egyptians, Nubians, Asiatics who didn't overun egypt, as the ancients would have us believe, but slowly integrated themselves into society through trade.

I think the only people who would have been of a lighter complextion would have been the Ptolemaic line as we know the were not egyptian and there line was constantly inbred so they remained Macedonian-Greek, with a bit of Syrian:-)


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2002 6:06 pm 
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Okay, the picture hasn't loaded yet, but I have something to say.

Well, I don't know why people think that the Egyptians weren't darker colored. I mean, come on! And don't we have proof that Tutankhamen had dark skin?

Queen Tye was the daughter of Yuya and Thuya, I read somewhere that they were Nubian. If they were, they would have had dark skin, right? Well, that would mean that Akhenaten was at least half-dark. Did anybody ever realize that in Akhenaten's statues and images he has features of the Africans? And if Tutankhamen was Akhenaten's son, then he would have been part-Nubian, also (And we don't know if his mother, Kiya, was Egyptian or not!)

Okay, that probably doesn't make much sense, but I have thought this for along time and can't figure out why people NEVER think that the Egyptians could have had dark skin.

Hey, the picture loaded. Pretty cool.

-Akhenaten-


Last edited by Akhenaten on Tue Oct 08, 2002 7:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2002 1:27 am 
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One speculation about Kiya was that she was a Mitanni princess originally called 'Tudakhepa' and then given an Egyptian name. What was the Mitannis' skin colouring.

I think it is safe to say that the Egyptians were a dark race. People who say anything else are probably very old school in there ways of thinking and the thought of a civilisation as powerful as Egypt being lead by black people would be hard for them to swallow.

Slave masters used to think we couldn't function on our own, we had to be lead. Some people still have that mentality.


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Egyptians
PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2004 3:02 pm 
I think we shouldn't get ahead of our selves as Black people. Yes many Egyptian rulers were Black, but lets not forget that many different nations had conquered Egypt and they were not all as Black as West Africans and African Americans. We can safely say though that Egypt probably looked like a New York inner city with mainly Blacks and Latinos, and Europeans here and there. Greeks confirm Egypts origin regardless. Lets not forget that more than Likely the 12 tribes of Israel that left Egypt according to the Old testament had more African Blood than Semitic blood by the time they arrived in Israel. Its all relative to teaching what the words actually say and not interpretation. There is no Middle East, that is strictly politics. Africa has been split by land movement and plates shifting, this is science. Middle Eastern people are themselves a melting pot of land split off from Africa.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2004 4:16 pm 
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Maybe I'm just wierd, but I'd always pictured the Egyptians to be tanned and Middle-Eastern looking. That's probably just me though.

But I can promise that they didn't have blonde hair and blue eyes (unless they were like albino or something...)


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Re: TUT ...REPLY
PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2004 2:26 pm 
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D wrote:
I DO NOT KNOW IF YOU ARE OF AFRICAN AMERICAN DESCENT. IT SHOULD NOT MATTER HOWEVER, YOU MUST UNDERSTAND THAT MANY BLACK CHILDREN ARE TOLD THAT EGYPT IS NOT EVEN PART OF AFRICA. THE CONTINENT HAS BEEN DIVIDED INTO SUB SAHARAN AND NORTHERN AFRICA. THIS IS DONE FOR A REASON. AND YES IT MAKES A DIFFERENCE TODAY, TO ME, AS WELL AS OTHER AFRICAN AMERICAN PEOPLE.



WHEN I WAS IN HIGH SCHOOL, I WAS TOLD THAT EGYPTIANS WERE NOT BLACK THEY WERE "MIXED" KING TUT WAS MIXED, HIS DEATH MASK, WAS JUST THAT A MASK. YOU WERE TOLD THAT BEING DECEDENTS OF WEST AFRICA YOU DID NOT LOOK ANYTHING LIKE EGYPTIANS. WHEN I GOT TO COLLEGE IT WAS NO DIFFERENT. I REMEMBER SADAT, AND HOW MY TEACHERS WOULD SAY OH HE IS NOT BLACK AND THE MAN WAS BLACKER THAN ME I ALWAYS FOUND THAT FUNNY. I ALWAYS FOUND THE GAME AMUSING. I HAD TO THE SENSE NOT TO BELIEVE IT! THAT'S NICE AND YES IT MAKES ME PROUD TO KNOW WHAT THE REAL STORY

SO I GUESS YOU MAY NOT UNDERSTAND THE FEELING I GET. THE CONNECTION I SEE FROM SOMEONE WHO LOOKS LIKE ME THAT STRONG WIDE NOSE AND FULL LIPS AND BROWN SKIN. SOMETHING THAT I HAVE ALWAYS BELIEVED IN MY HEART AND WHAT SOME HAVE TO COME TO GRIPS WITH.



BELIEVE IT OR NOT A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK JESUS HAD BLUE EYES AND BLOND HAIR. AND I WILL NEVER FORGET DURING THE 10 COMMANDMENTS WATCHED AS A CHILD THE LINE THAT MOSES SOON TO BE WIFE SAYS MY "SKIN IS NOT AS WHITE AS THE EGYPTIANS QUEENS" AND THE ACTRESS HAS BLOND HAIR AND LIGHT EYES.

AFRICAN AMERICANS AS WELL AS AFRICANS THROUGH THE DIASPORA HAVE BEEN TOLD THAT WE HAVE NO GREATNESS WE ARE THE DECEDENTS OF SAVAGES, UNEDUCATED PEOPLE ,IT TAKES A STRONG MIND AND SOUL NOT TO BELIEVE THAT. IT IS DONE SO TODAY BUT IN SETTLE WAY. SO IF I GET A BIT EMOTIONAL IT IS NOT MY INTENTION, BUT I KNOW THAT ALSO A NUMBER WHITE PEOPLE ARE "SHOCKED" BY THIS. BECAUSE YOU SEE THE HISTORY AND IT IS "HIS-STORY" HAS BEEN SENT FOR A LOOP. ITS HARD FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO FEEL THEY ARE SUPERIOR TO HAVE THE RUG TAKEN OUT FORM THEM. THE CRADLE OF LIFE ITSELF BEGAN IN AFRICA. THEY TOO THE VERY ONES THAT HATE ME FOR MY SKIN COLOR HAVE THIER ROOTS IN AFRICA, AND FOR SOME IT TOUGH TO DEAL WITH, VERY TOUGH!



I KNEW A MAN FROM JORDAN WHEN I WENT TO COLLEGE ,I ASKED HIM OUT I HAD TO KNOW WHAT DID THE PEOPLE LOOK LIKE WERE THEY DARK, HE LOOKED AT ME ODDLY WHEN I ASKED WHAT DID THEY LOOK LIKE HE SAID THEY LOOKED LIKE YOU. THEY WERE SOME THAT WERE LIGHT SKINNED BUT MOST HAVE AFRICAN FEATURES. YOU SEE, YOU DON'T HEAR THAT TOO OFTEN.



SO WHEN I SEE THAT FACE I FEEL THE CONNECTION I KNOW HE LOOKS LIKE ME AND YOU HAVE TO KNOW WHERE I'M COMING FROM TO FEEL THAT BUT IT IS A GLORIOUS FEELING.



IN PARTING - KING TUT WAS NOT JUST AN EGYPTIAN KING HE WAS AN AFRICAN KING. HE WAS AFRICAN.... JUST LIKE ME!!! ITS NICE VERY NICE


PS- Besides, one has to take into consideration that Egypt is the gateway between Africa and the Middle East, so it’s pretty evident it’s a melting pot

REPLY - WHAT GATEWAY???? EGYPT IS PART OF AFRICA AND ITS RULERS WERE AFRICAN , KING TUT LIKE HIS FATHER BEFORE HIM AND HIS FATHER BEFORE HIM WERE NOT MIXED THEY WERE BLACK, SO MUCH SO THAT IF YOU TOOK THEM AND PLACED THEM ON THE JERSEY TURNPKIE , WELL LETS SEE HOW MANY TIMES THEY WOULD BE STOPPED BY POLICE. GET MY DRIFT. I SEE THAT THERE WILL BE SOME WHITE PEOPLE WHO ARE GOING TO HAVE A ROUGH TIME WITH THIS ONE I WISH THEM LUCK THEY WILL NEED IT BUT IN THE END "ITS ALL GOOD" :wink:

Sounds like you wrote yourself a little play there, let me know how it turns out...


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Race and color
PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2004 1:32 pm 
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I'm sure I'll raise the wrath of all the Afrocentris, but anyone who has been to Egypt realizes that the land is a melting pot, and probably today's standards are the same as in the past.
People in Lower Egypt, to the North, are quite Middle Eastern looking, while the further one goes into Upper Egypt--to the South--the blacker and more African-looking the people become. To find the descendants of the ancient Egyptians, the fellehn of Upper Egypt look more like true Egyptians.
We should look at what the ancient Egyptians called themselves--"rem" is the word referring to them, and "rem" means black.
In one way the ancient Egyptians were much further advanced than we are, though. A persons color meant absolutely nothing to them.
To think that one can get an accurate picture of how Egyptians looked by viewing a reconstruction of Tut's face is a mistake. Color of skin, shape of mouth--all these things are too much of a variabe to be used as a reconstruction--at best, it's only guesswork. Although Tutankhamen's parentage is much debated, in all likelihood he had some Asia blood--he was probably more Middle Eastern looking.


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PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2004 3:21 pm 
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Um...the Ancient egyptian word for "black" is Kem, as in Kemet- The Black lands. The fertile lands irrigated naturally by the nile, what is now part of modern Egypt?...yeah...rem in ancient egyptian is fish...

Also, some egyptologists speculate that the ancient egyptians in general were no darker than moder day Spaniards (because of their proximity to the meditaranian area in the north), or their modern Egyptian counterparts. Women in their art were mostly portrayed as pale, sometimes whiteish blue/green (in funerary statues, but then again, everyone is white/blue when they die due to loss of blood and pigments), and in some writings, like the description of Queen Ahmose, describe them as being fair in complexion, not "white" but "fair", lighter than their male counterparts who were portrayed as occre red.


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Kem-rem
PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2004 3:52 pm 
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I wasn't paying attention to where my fingers were while I was typing--sorry!
You're right. Kem is Black, rem is fish!
But what I said about there being a mixture of colors in Egypt still is true--the further south you go, the more dark the complexions become.


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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2004 11:34 am 
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Lol! :D i was wondering about that...why would the ancient egyptians call themselves fish? hehe :wink:

Anyways, that makes sense. Egypt's empire streatched from the southern meditaranians to the middle east and nubia, so it's not uncommon for many varriations of skin tone.


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