What i want to know was Nefure Hatshepsut married to a Pharaoh when she adopted Moses. The Old Testament only mentions the daughter of the Pharaoh adopting Moses. Yet in the Koran it claims that it was the wife of the Pharaoh who adopted Moses and muslims claim this was because Nefure had married a Pharaoh and was a Pharaohs wife when she adopted Moses. It is claimed she adopted Moses when she was 15. But i have found no real data as to when Nefure became married to that Pharaoh. Before or after she adopted Moses.
Bel you say: I do not actually consider is factual to quote from religious book's that were written long after the event's we are discussing. It is a known fact that these book's from which we speak, are as influenced by political power as is the case of "JonBenet Ramsey." Which simply state's that it is not necessary the TRUTH the whole TRUTH and nothing but the TRUTH, so help us GOD.
Starjade says: Well as a matter of fact the Old Testament was written not far from that Time period especially as Moses himself was adopted by Nefure/ Hatshepsut. So the two are connected in history there is no doubt and as you know the data on dates from Historians regarding that Time period are not exact. The Genesis period would have been written long before Thutmoses1/Amenhotep 1 was even born. But the Exodus well that was happening at that Time.
The debate was in whether or not it was the Pharaohs daughter as it says in the Old Testament or the Pharaohs wife as it says in the Koran. It is clear that it would have to have been the Pharaohs daughter Nefure Hatshepsut. That is then a matter of history and not the religious beliefs of the Jews or Muslims (even though) the Arabs are descendants of Ishmael and so are Jews also. Two different religions and two differing statements settled by Egyptian history. Clearly the Koran has not been true. So it was not about the beliefs of either religion but about history corroborating one book the Old Testament against the other the Koran. There are other matter regarding these conversations that you are not aware of and all of it oddly is in the verifying of the truth of one book or the other.
This Time the Old Testament has stood that test of Time. And the Koran has not.
Bel you say: Therefore in so saying, here is a little inside skinny on the skinny.....
Hatshepsut was a Egyptian queen and became one of the first recorded female rulers when she adopted the full titles of a pharaoh. Hatshepsut was the eldest daughter of the Pharaoh Thutmose I and Queen Ahmose. Thutmose I was the successor of the childless pharaoh, Amenhotep I. Thutmose I was a successful general in the army and married the old Pharaoh's sister Ahmose. Hatshepsut was born around 1502 BC. Her two eldest brothers died in accidents before their father's death. In Egypt only a male could be a pharaoh, however, the bloodline to the throne came from the eldest daughter of the old pharaoh and marriage to her was essential to succeed to the throne. The common practice was for the pharaoh to marry his favorite son to his eldest daughter. Brother sister marriages and even father daughter marriages were accepted in the royal families of ancient Egypt. It is thought that Hatshepsut was about age fifteen when her father died.
Starjade says: Yes thankyou for the history of Thutmose 1 / Amenhotep 1. I did read up on that and I have seen statements that claimed that Nefure was 15 when her father died but I looked deeper at many historical sources and that just is not possible.
Thutmoses 1 /Amenhotep 1 was called Pharaoh but was co regent to Pharaoh Ahmosis who lived in Thebes in Memphis. The Pharaoh Ahmosis was the main ruler of Egypt and so Thutmoses 1 /Amenhotep 1. would only be the main ruling Pharaoh after the death of the Pharaoh Ahmosis.
Nefure was the only surviving daughter of Thutmoses 1 / Amenhotep 1. Nefure convinced her father to make her little adopted child Moses his future heir. So Moses was set up to become the future King of all Egypt. Moses became known as Senmut which means mothers brother. Historians studies show that Moses came to live in the palace at about 12 years Old about the same Time that his adopted Grandfather Thutmoses 1 / Amenhotep 1. became main emporer over the whole of Egypt. At this Time they had moved from the palace at Memphis where the Co regent ruled and went to Thebes where the main Palace was.
At about the age of 18 Moses was designated the future heir apparent with his mother Nefure as his regent. She was now given the additional royal name of “Hatshepsut” and was then referred to as Queen instead of princess. Once someone was designated as the future heir to the throne his inscriptions refer to him as “King”. Moses was elevated to this position of heir apparent when he was 24 years old. When Moses became about 33 years old he was designated as being the Crown Prince and became known as Thutmoses 11. The numbers after the Egyptian Kings names are simply designations given to them by Egyptologists to identify each succeeding person of the same name. When Moses was 40 he killed an Egyptian and so as history claims Moses had to flee Egypt.
Had the Pharaoh Thutmoses 1 / Amenhotep 1. been dead when Nefure was 15 then it is odd that Thutmoses 1 / Amenhotep 1. became main emporer over the whole of Egypt. When Moses or shall we say Nefures adopted child was 12. And she only became known as Hatshepsut which is a Title because her father accepted Nefures adopted child as his future Heir apparent naming Nefure as her child’s regent that is how she then became to have that Title Hatshepsut.
Bel you say: Hatshepsut was married to her father before his passing at the age of 15 (ironic, don't you think); giving her royal passage. Hatshepsut's then ordered that she be crowned a pharaoh and she adopted the Horus name and false beard. Horus names were used only by male rulers.
Starjade says: I do not know where your are getting your data from but you are mistaken. Nefure / Hatshepsut was married to her half brother Thutmose who became known as Thutmose the 11. Taking the Titles in Egyptian tradition when Moses or should we call him Senmut Thutmoses 11, which was his Egyptian name. Fled Egypt when he killed an Egyptian. Had the Pharaoh Thutmoses 1 / Amenhotep 1 died then Nefure / Hatshepsuts adopted child would have been crown King of all Egypt the Emperor Pharaoh. But that did not happen because the Child of Nefure / hatshepsut had killed an Egyptian and fled Egypt. That child being of course called Moses. or should we call him Senmut Thutmoses 11 which was his Egyptian name.
His Hebrew name is Moses. He Fled from Egypt after killing the Egyptian and so then Thutmoses 1 / Amenhotep 1 then married his daughter Nefure / Hatshepsut to her half brother who again from Egyptian tradition collected all of the Egyptian Titles and ranks of his predecessor. Which was Moses or rather Egyptian wise he was then called Thutmoses 11. The marriage of the half brother to Nefure / Hatshepsut meant her new husband would also be named Thutmoses 11 and he would then become that heir to that Egyptian throne. Instead of Moses who once was Thutmoses 11 until he fled Egypt leaving a dilemma of the potential loss of the throne to another family because as you said females do not rule in Egypt.
Only someone then marrying Nefure / Hatshepsut could then become Emperor Pharaoh of Egypt when her father Thutmoses 1 / Amenhotep 1 died. Who was not the adopted son and agreed heir to that throne by Thutmoses 1 / Amenhotep 1 whos own children had died creating a similar problem of losing that Crown. Adoption then was accepted. And as Moses or should we call him Senmut Thutmoses 11 was clearly only the crown prince then clearly as logic dictates then Thutmoses 1 / Amenhotep 1 was still very much alive.
Bel you say: Ane to quote her, "Now my heart turns to and fro, in thinking what will the people say, they who shall see my monument in after years, and shall speak of what I have done."
Starjade says: Clearly even though female and not classed as Ruler she did her own stuff regards ruling on the side indulging in such Power whiles her crown prince child was being trained as being the future Pharaoh for when his grandfather Thutmoses 1 / Amenhotep 1 had died. After all he was the heir to the throne. Nefure / hatshepsut would have found it hard to give up that seat of power and indeed why should she in her mind just because of Egyptian traditions.
I did research this matter extensively because those I was speaking with will check on my words as their religion is at stake in their eyes. I know my data is correct. Never trust one source of information as some people do not look further than the first page. It is an illumination to see the Egyptian data match the Old Testament so accurately. But Islam bit the dust a long Time before these conversati8ons took place. It was not the wise to place the Sura 4:82 in a Book that is so full of errors. In case you do not know. Sura 4:82 says: Do they not consider the Koran with care for if it had come from any other than Allah then surely they would have found much discrepancy therein. There is a challenge in Islam that is open to all Muslims and non Muslims and the Challenge is to find Just one error in the Koran. If one error is found in the Koran then that is the proof that the Koran did not come from God.
Trust me when Muslims Goaded me to challenge Islam with that Sura 4:82 that very day Islam bit the dust. There were over a thousand Muslims in that Challenge and when I challenged Islam, Islam bit the dust and thousands of Muslims who bragged they could defend Islam against my God given Revelations all shirked away and Islam has never been able to recover since.
But that is another story.
Yet still a part of this one. For they claim i8n the Koran that it was the pharaohs wife who adopted Moses when the Old Testament said it was the Pharaohs daughter and I have since proved it was the daughter Nefure.