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Uha! Does anyone know?
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2004 1:14 pm 
peasant
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Uha is a god (I'm assuming) dating back to 2400 B.C. in Egypt. The translation of Nagaued-Der Stekae (not to sure about its spelling) of the first Intermediate Period has Uha as the great god,the Lord of the Heaven's. Uha is from Ut, which is in South Africa. I found Ut, but still can't find Uha's origin or how Uha came to be or anything else about Uha. I think someone could have translated the text wrong making my search difficult. I think the name Uha could have been Hu, but just assuming that.

So if anyone knows about Uha, please enlighten me.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2004 7:34 am 
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http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/ancient/2400uha.html

This is what I found, but I see it's nothing more of what you already know.... :roll:
I posted it also in the italian site, let's see if anybody knows anything about that....but, tell me something, I'm curious, where did you see this Uha?
Ciao :wink:


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2004 9:04 am 
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maatkara wrote:
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/ancient/2400uha.html

This is what I found, but I see it's nothing more of what you already know.... :roll:
I posted it also in the italian site, let's see if anybody knows anything about that....but, tell me something, I'm curious, where did you see this Uha?
Ciao :wink:


A nice man (Bernie) on the egyptianologist site found it for me. I've been researching FGM (Female Genitalia Mutilation, in other words Female circumcision! :evil:) for some time now. And by the way the site were I posted my conclusions has been wipped out. Some topics I wish to discuss have been a touchy issue with Arabic link sites and they don't seem to stay on the web for long. So now I have tobe subtle in a way that I don't offend anyone. Consider Ra/Re calling to me to tone down a bit.

Other than that, I appreciate you helping me. Thanx so much for the help. :D May many blessings be upon you.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2004 9:25 am 
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SerqSekhet, are you referring to guardians.net forum (I remember a nice man named Bernie from that site).

I am curious to read your conclusion on Egyptian origins of female circumcision as I have read a number of times of Strabo's claims yet no evidence seems to arise.

The only mention of Uha that I can find is from the "The Offering of Uha", c. 2400 BCE., but I will continue to search.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2004 9:58 am 
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Neb-Ma'at-Re wrote:
SerqSekhet, are you referring to guardians.net forum (I remember a nice man named Bernie from that site).

I am curious to read your conclusion on Egyptian origins of female circumcision as I have read a number of times of Strabo's claims yet no evidence seems to arise.

The only mention of Uha that I can find is from the "The Offering of Uha", c. 2400 BCE., but I will continue to search.


Why yes it is the same Bernie! He is so helpful to others. I don't suppose you know what happen to Guardians? I feel like a scene from the movie "The Mummy" became a reality when regarding guardians and my self. That scene being at the begining of the movie where Evie is in the library putting a book away and knocks everything down. That is how I feel about what I had wrote on that site. Followed by the remark in the movie made to Evie by her boss is quite fitting to discribe me.

On to what I have written, I will send you a pm of it. My good friend Es put it on a disc for me. Though it may be some time before she looks for it. She's forgetful at times. Anyhoot, I can send what I have in footnotes about the topic if you like?

Thanx for helping :)


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2004 2:30 pm 
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I don't know what happened to the guardian site, but when I try to go there a message saying I am not authorized comes up. I wasn't a regular on the site but did make a number of posts in the Hieroglyphs section as Huy. It's been a while since I visited, how long has it been gone?

Please send what you have. I am interested to learn of the supposed origins of this topic.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2004 3:31 pm 
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Ok I have really taken a look at "The Offering of Uha" and have come to some conclusions. Without seeing the actual inscriptions I can only go by the translation that is offered. If we study this translation carefully I think we will find something quite different from your (and Bernie's ?) original assumptions:

An offering which the king and Anubis, Who is Upon His Mountain, He Who is in Ut, the Lord of the Holy Land, give:
- I don't think Ut here is an actually earthly geographic location. I think Ut here refers to Am Ut. In allusion to his connection with the embalment of Osirus, Anubis is called Am Ut which means "Dweller in the chamber of Embalment", therefore Ut refers to the "Chamber of Embalment [of Osiris]".

An invocation-offering to the Count, Seal-Bearer of the King of Rekhyt [Lower Egypt], Sole Companion, and Lector Priest, honored with the great god, the Lord of Heaven, Uha, who says:
- I do not believe that Uha here describes a God or diety but rather a person. These are the tiltes of Uha! Count,Seal-Bearer of the King of Rehyt, Sole Companion, and lector priest who was honored with the great god, or the lord of heaven. Then it gives the name of the man who held these tiltes, Uha, and this man says:

I was one beloved of his father [Uha's father], favored of his mother[Uha's Mother], whom his brothers and sisters [Uha's brothers and sisters]loved. When I was circumcised, together with one hundred and twenty men, and one hundred and twenty women, there was none thereof who hit out, there was none thereof who was hit, there was none thereof who scratched, there was none thereof who was scratched. I was a commoner of repute, who lived on his own property, plowed with his own span of oxen, and sailed in his own ship, and not through that which I had found in the possession of my father, honored Uha.

Uha was a nobleman not a God!!!!!!!!!


Last edited by Neb-Ma'at-Re on Sat Nov 27, 2004 4:23 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2004 3:57 pm 
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I have found a web page on The social classes in ancient Egypt and uses this inscription as an example. This supports my thought that Uha was a nobleman:

The scribes

The education future scribes received, i.e. reading, writing and arithmetics, together with the lack of a personal power base, made them ideal administrators. Apart from this basic knowledge they were often taught a profession, such as architecture, medicine and the like, and they were assigned a rank in these specialist hierarchies.
The nobility was literate too, even many women among them, but they were prone to have political agendas of their own and pursue them, above all when central government was weak. Still, many high state functionaries were drawn from the nobility, often from the pharaoh's own family. Occasionally working class commoners knew how to read and write, but administrative positions were generally filled with scribes who had inherited their status from their fathers.

An invocation-offering to the Count, Seal-Bearer of the King of Rekhyt [Lower Egypt], Sole Companion, and Lector Priest, honored with the great god, the Lord of Heaven, Uha, who says: I was one beloved of his father, favored of his mother, whom his brothers and sisters loved. .............. I was a commoner of repute, who lived on his own property, plowed with his own span of oxen, and sailed in his own ship, and not through that which I had found in the possession of my father, honored Uha.
From The offering of Uha, ca. 2400 BCE
From: D. Dunham, Naga-ed-Der Stelae of the First Intermediate Period, (London, 1917), pp. 102-104
Internet Ancient History Sourcebook


source


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2004 1:20 pm 
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Horus can use you as a lawyer 8)
I'll prepare my case.

Being that you have come to the conclusion Uha was a nobleman, explains that the Pharoah was looked on as the highest person to make the offering was due to the belief that, unlike the deified men as objects of worship occurred in Ancient Egypt, but the number of such created deities did exist. A few Pharoah's such as Snefru of the old Kingdom. Amenemhet III of the Middle Kingdom. And Amenhotpe I including his mother Ahmes-Nefertari of the New Kingdom were worshipped in various localities. Being of divine generation, the actual child of the surpreme god. In the Old Kingdom the Pharoah was regarded as the son of Ra/Re. In the New Kingdom, when the great state god Amun was in the ascendant, the Pharaoh was thought to be issue of Amun himself! Reliefs on the walls of the temples Deir el Baheri and Luxor show how the birth of the pharaoh is the birth of a god. Origins to royal burials were based for their theological justification on the divine nature of the former kings.

As you've mention from your post, such noblemen were often of the Pharaohs family. Giving this conclusion we are still left with which god its actually being offered to? Yes its in referance to Uha, but whom is Uha's true idenity its being offered to? Though Uha may be a person, the offering is being "honoured with the great god" :roll:

For thinking Ut as the Chamber of Embalment is conceivable, but considering Uha is a nobleman as you've suggested would support the theory Uha was an outsider; a foreigner in the Transvaal regions of South Africa, to whom trading rights are denied.

Yes or No?


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2004 2:32 pm 
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I forgot to mention "Mountains" are usually in refereance to nations. Making Ut a place, or a region. To understand this is to comprehend linguistics. Ut is similar in sound of a South African word for Out or out of.
And if you keep in mind Biblical referances as God being from a musical direction "Sala". Ut is the first cord of a symbol formerly used in solmization (sol=sun/Ra/Re;mi a name I call myself zation a system for identifing musical tones) now replaced with #Do/Doh. Combine or overlap Ut with Uha would give Uthai meaning being helpful. Remove t & i from Uthai makes ti meaning "you" in egyptian. "You" Uha being a commoner,but noble. #Ti also being of musical stature as well.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2004 10:02 pm 
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SerqSekhet, I think you are overlooking some very basic things here.

Firstly, this inscription is from a funerary stela. This stela is in honor of a deceased nobleman named Uha. These invocation-offerings are not being made to any god, they are being offered by a king and Anubis to the deceased.The honored does not make offerings but instead receives them (a rule that cn be seen on any funerary stela),in this case, by the king (?) and Anubis, as written in the first line:
An offering which the king and Anubis, Who is Upon His Mountain, He Who is in Ut, the Lord of the Holy Land, give:

Second, "Who is upon his mountain", "He who is in UT (Am Ut)", and "The Lord of the Holy Land" are all epithets of Anubis. These do not refer to 'foreign' places. The "mountain" refers to the "western mountain" (remember the west was the land of the dead and Anubis was guard of the necropolis in the west). I already described Ut (Am Ut) as the embalment chamber (Anubis is the god of mummification and the dweller in the embalment chamber). The "Holy Land" refers to the necropolis in the west. Look them up!
I don't understand why you would think that Uha would have to be foreign to be a nobleman and have a funerary stela erected with an invocation-offering of the king and Anubis.

Thirdly, the reason that Uha is being honored with the great God ,Lord of Heaven, is because he is with him! This is a funerary stela, Uha is dead.

As I said before if we had a picture or the actual hieroglyphs of this stela, we could properly judge it, but here are some examples of some funerary stela from around the same era. Note the similarities:

This is the funerary stela of Setnet-Inheret, Priestess of Het-Hert (Hathor) from Naga ed-Deir dating to the Firts Intermediate period.
Image
The text on Setnet-Inheret's stela reads as follows:

"An offering which the King gives [and] Yinepu [Anpu,Anubis]upon His mountain, imy-ut [Am Ut], the Lord of the Sacred Land: an invocation offering of bread to the King's Only Jewel, hemet-Netjer of Het-Hert, the revered one, beloved of Het-Hert, Beautiful of Favor more than multitudes [lit. pillars (?)], imyt-weret in the midst of the noblewomen, Setnet-Inheret. That which was made by the Count, Sole Companion, the Lector Priest Heni. A thousand of bread and beer, a thousand of cattle, a thousand fowls, a thousand of everything for the Sole [Royal Ornament], the hemet-netjer priestess of Het-Hert, his beloved wife, Setnet-Inheret."
"Note: imy-ut [Am Ut] is both a symbol and a title of Yinepu[Anpu,Anubis], meaning "He who is in the place of embalming."
( source1 )


This is the stela of the Official Inhuretnakht and his wife Hui, from Naga ed-Deir, 1st Intermediate Period
Image
"The artistic output of the Old Kingdom (about 2613-2160 BC) was remarkably consistent. The First Intermediate Period, however, saw the development of very localized styles and manners of representation. The growing power of local officials meant that more people wanted to erect monuments to themselves and the disappearance of central control contributed to the lack of formally trained craftsmen to execute these monuments. With these so-called 'provincial' styles it is possible to suggest the origin and date of many pieces, purely based on style.

A large number of stelae were excavated at Naga ed-Deir in the early twentieth century. Although its find spot is unknown, the stela of Inheretnakht can be confidently attributed to this site by its similarity to the excavated pieces: the use of a coloured border, similarity in the forms of the hieroglyphs, and the arrangement of the small figures before the deceased. While the stela shows some signs of provincial art style, it is a far more accomplished piece than many others found at the site, some of which might be rejected as fakes if their excavated origin was not so certain."
(source2
Note the orientation of the 'offering' hieroglyphs are facing Inhuretnakht and his wife Hui. This signifies they they are receiving offerings.

Another example of the "gift [or boon] which the king gives" comes from the Old Kingdom period, specifically an Inscription in the Giza Mastaba of Princess Ni-Sedjer-Kai, early 5th Dynasty:
"An offering which the king gives and Anubis, lord of the necropolis, first of the god’s hall: May she be buried in the western necropolis at great old age. May she travel on the good ways on which a revered one travels well. May offerings be given to her on New Year’s feast, the Thoth feast, the First of the Year feast, the wag-feast, the Sokar feast, the Great Flame feast, the Brazier feast, the Procession-of-Min feast, the monthly sadj-feast, the Beginning of the Month feast, the Beginning of the Half-Month feast, every feast, every day, to the royal daughter, the royal ornament, priestess of Hathor, priestess of Khufu, Ni-Sedjer-Kai". ( source3 )

I can find dozens of examples of similar stela inscriptions but I think the proof to our question may lie in a book titled "Ancient Egypt: Treasures from the Collection of the Oriental Institute University of Chicago" by Emily Teeter. Check out the #12 underTable of Contents. Could this be our Uha????????


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2004 3:36 am 
Pharaoh
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WOW Neb!
It seams you did a very good job!! :wink:
I was asking in the italian site few days ago and now some of them (ancient and very well prepared egyptologysts) came up more or less to the same conclusions!!!
cia' :wink:


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2004 6:32 am 
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And you BOTH DON'T GET IT! You're missing my point. For me and others to STOP such horrific acts that are performed on 80% of egyptian women and girls, I must find the source for such act or ritualistic offering concerning the past! Understand?!

If you both wish to see only the trivial data that is before you, that'll be fine. But don't expect me to think or back down in my persuit in finding the culprit god whom is responsible for FMG! Considering this text is the only link to FMG as to who its being offered to. According to the Shabaka Stone Horus is refered to the Jackel being Anubis. Which will be helpful knowing once I untangled the mess that was neatly covered up by the Ancient Gods of Egypt. Example; what if the myth of Atum was a cover up when Horus was sexually assaulted by Set? Hmmm, ever think of the myths to intwine as manisfestations of the individual gods themselves of occurances that they have done and they just given a name and face for such acts?

Anyways, thanks for the help. And if you wish to be helpful Neb Ma'at Re, maybe the physical law can be more helpful towards those whom I search for, that I consider victims of a revenge that they are truely not responsible for. As for those in our day in age who suffer this obsolete act wonders where is your law Ma'at?


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2004 11:01 pm 
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SerqSekhet,

I'm sorry if I upset you but the original topic and question of your post was about Ahu being a god. Then about Ahu being from some region from south Africa which you then turned into musical notes from the sound Ut and swung it back around to Ahu being a commoner. I think the evidence that I presented clearly disproves all of these theories as well as the references in this stela of circumcision being associated to any god. Did I not answer your questions???

The invocation-offerings in this stela were made to Ahu [a nobleman] by the king and Anubis and not offerings of circumcision to any god, as offerings of kings and Anubis can be seen on countless stela that do not make mention of circumcision.Call this trivial data if you will but it is quite important in undertsanding what this inscription is and what it isn't.

I certainly did not intend to try to make you "back down in your persuit in finding the culprit god whom is responsible for FMG!" In fact you opened my eyes to this horrid form of torture and I would like to help you find what the origins of this inhumanity and any gods associated with it, but I can honestly say I don't think it is on this stela.

Perhaps it was not a religious ritual but rather a mark of class distinction as mentioned in excerpts from this article titled Male and Female Circumcision in Africa: Pharaonic Egyptian and Religious Origins by Desmond Wiggins from University of South Australia:
The origin of "female circumcision" is obscure-so hazy that Hosken argues the origin is unknown (1994, p. 71). Assaad suggests that female circumcision was practiced in ancient Egypt and hence originated there. Widstrand traces classical references to Agatharchides of Cnidus, a second century BCE geographer (1964, p. 116), while Abdalla suggests that it was practiced in ancient Egypt as a way to "obtain control of [women's] magic power" (1982, p. 66).

Herodotus suggests that other nations borrowed the custom of male circumcision from the Egyptians (translated by Selincourt, 1954, pp. 167-68), but there appears to be no way of verifying the soundness of this statement. Herodotus" statement may be accurate and is possibly the explanation of how male circumcision became established in cultures such as the Hebrew nation (ca tenth century BCE), as attested in Exodus 4:24-26. Later Jewish philosophers such as Philo (first century BCE) advocated circumcision as a means of reducing sexual desire of males and females (Yonge, 1993, p. 534-35); this idea still held favour as late as 1932 in Western society.

A 1963 study conducted by Shandal determined that a large number of female mummies found in Egypt were circumcised (1963, cited in Ras-Work, 1997, p. 142). As with male circumcision it is believed "female circumcision" was performed to mark class distinction in Egypt. Taba proposes that "female circumcision" was transported from Egypt to the Sudan and the Horn of Africa in the fifth century CE with the migration of the population (cited in Ras-Work, 1997, p. 142).
( source )


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2004 3:39 am 
Pharaoh
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I am completely ignorant on this matter and I'm following it with much interest....I like the way Neb is facing the problem, he seams to have the right background to do that...not me at all!!!! I'm just trying to built it following all these researches and trying to undrestand all I can....Indeed I wish to thank you all for giving me this chance! :wink:

ciao!


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