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Are the pyramids tombs?
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2004 6:12 am 
Prince/Princess
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Who are you talking about when you say we have people showing us what we can and can't do making us think we are not capable of doing certain things?


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2004 8:39 am 
Pharaoh
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Tash wrote:
now it is my turn,
yet again i must point out to you about the use of water, the NOVA site and a few others you gave me mention the use of water, water at their disposal would be little, even during the annual flood,

then did you know that the arcitecture of the maya and the ancient egyptians was totaly different, the only similarities is the pyramids, did the ancient egyptians even have chert?

you may like to look at these links;

http://www.sunship.com/egypt/articles/cdunn2.html

http://www.atlantisrising.com/issue8/ar8egypt.html

http://www.atlantisrising.com/issue12/a ... astle.html

i suppose you will take note that all of these were written by chris dunn, yes yes i know, but he has the best case against the methods proposed for the building of the pyramids that and their cutting techniques


Hi again Tash,

What makes you think i haven't heard of Mr. Chris Dunn? Years ago, i ran into him and his work. I see he hasn't added much to his rectoric since. IF he had a valid argument when i first heard of him, he should have been able to ADD to it, he hasn't. Except to add to his rectoric of not being taken seriously.

I really don't know where you get the ideal that Giza has/had no water. There is a recovered harbor there that dates to the 4th dynasty, do you know? During the millenniuns the Nile has shifted course eastward to where it is today.

Chert is found in limestone, some of the Predynastic knives that are famous for their rippled effect are made from chert. So yes, the Egyptians did have chert, and this was what was used by Americans in cutting their limestone. Very possible that Egyptians used it as well.

I appreciated the sites provided ... i am by no means an expert on machinery as Mr. Dunn appears to be. However, i do know that Egypt does not share any "world wide flood stories" that are common to the rest of the Middle East. So his argument about the Great Pyramid being used by ancients to safeguard their texts from the world flood of Noah is invalid. I find it interesting that he chosed to use Roman era sources for this information on the use of the Great Pyramid, it supports his idea. However, Tash, the Pyramids were ancient by the time of his Roman sources.

His argument that there were no wheels during the construction of the Great Pyramid is also invalid. The oldest yet, known wheel was found in Mesopotamia and dates to 3,500 BCE.
http://library.thinkquest.org/C004203/s ... ence02.htm

As for his assertion that the ancient writtings within the Pyramids are forgeries by near modern fakers seeking fame... I am again forced to recall Dr. Hawass' belief in them as real. While i accept that many on this board dislike Dr. Hawass. His zeal, knowledge, and love of his nations historical past makes it highly unlikely, in my opinion, that he would purposely hide or falseify evidence to support corrupt Egyptianologists.

Futhermore, Tash... there is the lack of evidence in support of Mr. Dunn from the ancients themselves. There are no signs, evidence, tomb art that even begins to support his assertions that they had lathes able to turn those stones, and drill the holes. While the evidence from Egypt and the ancients all tend to support the Egyptianologists that discount Mr. Dunn's work.

Which brings me to these questions. IF as Mr. Dunn writes why is there no evidence of such from the ancients? They show us hunting scenes, war scenes, family scenes, party scenes, worship scenes, boating scenes, construction scenes, moving of major statues scenes. They have left us unfinished tombs with construction marks on them. But what they haven't left us are scenes with lathes, generators, lightbulbs, chemical mixing rooms. Why?

What happened to them from the 4th Dynasty to the 6th when Pyramids become smaller? Not to mention throughout the rest of Egyptian history, the Middle Kingdom, the New Kingdom? While these 'modern' machines might have disappeared and apparently did after the construction of the 4th Dynasty Pyramids. Why did the knowledge of them? You claim "he has the best case against the methods proposed for the building of the pyramids that and their cutting techniques"... I see his case as misrepresenting historical reality ( wheels and forgers), i see him crediting sources with no pertinence to the subject, i.e., Roman sources on what the Pyramids were for. So, i am again forced to dismiss him as non-pertinent to the subject of Pyramid construction and means. I am sorry, it is not my reflection of you through.

Now, i have been accused of wanting folks to believe as i do. This was and is a lie. My information is without chains, one is welcome to believe as they chose, even if the evidence is totally lacking to support that belief. Believe as you want, i simply prefer to believe what is believable and supported by the facts.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2004 10:39 am 
Pharaoh
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Sekhmet wrote:
In other words, they didn't have experts telling them that things couldn't be done. Mankind as a wonderful ability to dream dreams and make them come true. The ancients are the best examples, i know of this ability of mankind.

Tash wrote:
Nobody is saying that things could not be done, we (unorthodox thinkers) are just stateing that there are different and better ways of doing things, posted Sun Jun 20, 2004 3:52 am

that was within the capabilites of the Ancient Egyptians
and also may i add the the GP resonates in allignment with the earths frequency. an 'a' flat or something
posted Sun Jun 20, 2004 5:47 am

what exactly are you saying here? i am saying that the ancient egyptians did dream, they dreampt up far more advanced ways than we are just comprehending, i am not saying that they cannot do things, nor is any other unorthodox thinker we are saying that the Ancient egyptians are smarter than thought by orthodox Thinkers, its those who dont beleive point that the Ancient egyptians had no advanced machineing techinques that are offending their memory, all i want to find out is the truth, and in a technological viewpoint the unorthodox people seem alot more correct, if you can give me REALY GOOD EVIDENCE then i will change my mind
posted Sun Jun 20, 2004 8:00 am

Any rebuttle? this is just getting interesting for me! posted Mon Jun 21, 2004 6:53 am



Hi again Tash, i hope you don't mind my condensing your posts. Made it easier for me to answer. First off, i don't get to the computer often at home. i do most of my posting at work, i have a really nice job that allows me that pleasure. Also i am quiet busy with research on my own. So sometimes i am able to get right to a response other times it takes awhile. So please be patient if i am not right back.

Now to your posts. First off i am not interested in making you change your mind, sorry. Believe what you want to, i assure you, i lose no sleep in worrying over what other folks think. My interest is in providing the best evidence available so folks can make decisions based upon a variety of information.

You are not the only unorthodox thinker when it comes to Egyptian history. I have been burned by some of the greats of modern archaeology with my own unorthodox thinking. However, instead of raising the rectoric of "you're not taking me seriously" and being very sure of my position i simply beg off, and hit the books again. The next time, i am heard of in the circles of Egyptian scholars :) i will be prepared, and i am certainly grateful to those greats, and near greats for their challenges. Because i can now give them answers that will force them to reconsider their positions.

What did i mean by my statement. Well, it is a defence for the ancients. There is a very large subfield called "catastrophic research and study" it is best represented by the Society for Interdisciplinary Studies. Which is the oldest and most up to date society for catastrophist information and research. The SIS was formed in 1974 to consider the role global cosmic catastrophes may have played in our history, and even recorded by cultures worldwide in their oral and written ancient traditions. This field took its inspiration from the work of Dr. Velikovsky who was one of the earliest to say, "hey, Egyptian and Biblical history as it is now being aligned does not work". Then provided another alternative and explaination of what might be a better way of considering the problem. It has been disproven but the field was born and continues.

It covers a wide varity of missing historical gaps and explains most of it in ways that, i find insulting to the ancients. Like the Bible and Egyptian history do not agree as generally accepted, therefore Egyptian history or the Bible is wrong. (The real problem lies in the christian chronology that is used to frame Biblical history.) Any way catastrophic destruction is used to describe why Atlantis sank, why the Sphinx and Pyramids are really older than they are, why the Mayans disappeared, etc. It is again, in my opinion a metaphor to support the belief that aliens did it all, took off and either natural earth destruction took place to eliminate alien proof of interference or the aliens themselves did it. Nor, is my belief without basis, for many of the supporters of aliens and such reasons use the work of catastrophes as their spring board to aliens.

Western Civilization has historically had a very poor view of the ancients, and primative peoples around the world. The natives of America couldn't have built pyramids, the great mounds of Ohio, Georgia etc. Aliens came in really helpful or missing races of super humans who came in, did the work and then disappeared without leaving any other traces. These were used in support of this biased and untrue assertion by scholars of the inability of ancients to do things these modern brains didn't believe possible.

Why does Egypt have the adverb 'mysterious' affixed to it? For much the same reason, Tash. Since the language, written and spoken, of the ancient Egyptians was forgotten by the 6th century AD. During the Renaissance dating to the 1500's AD Egypt was rediscovered but not the language that was so plainly on the remains of Egypt's ruins. The great western scholars of that age "know it all's" as i like to think. Actually in some cases made up stories of what they thought was being said. It wasn't until 1827 when Champollion broke the silence of the ancient Egyptians that folks were able to really read that the Egyptians were really very human. Meanwhile, "mysterious" continues to be used because it sells better than the reality that ancients are much like moderns.

Okay, now to your belief that the Egyptians used "advanced ways". Where did these advanced ways come from? You provide no evidence other than Chris Dunn, who i for the second time in my life find sadly lacking in proof, see above post for details. What happened to these advanced ways? Mankind is funny when something better comes along man continues to develop it, use it, but not in the case of pyramid construction. To me, Tash this is a loud warning light that something isn't normal and i become suspious. Mankind does not act irrational to lose "advance ways" isn't rational. Especially when there is no build up to them, this simply does not make sense to me. It harkens back to the catastrophic viewpoints that by their nature also bring up aliens. There are remains normally left behind... where are they, i ask? Not even drawings or written referrals to them. Why?

When unorthodox thinkers can answer honestly without distorting historical reality, and using proper sources for support (again see above post for details) of their unorthodox thinking. i, a most unorthodox thinker, will be happy to support their own works but not with the evidence you have provided me, i am sorry.

You wrote "may i add the the GP resonates in allignment with the earths frequency. an 'a' flat or something". First off i don't really understand what you're attempting to say. Second there is an accepted relationship between music and math, the Egyptians were early masters at math and music. The Egyptians understood well, the concept of dual purpose of something. So it is not, to me, out of the reaches of possibilities of the 4th dynasty priests responsible for building the 'GP' to dually conbine music with math in its construction. Mankind, is able to dream dreams and make them come true, even the ancients of whom we are the children of. And thirdly, you provide me with no source so i can try to understand better what you're trying to say to me.

And please remember i am not interested in making anyone change their thinking. If logic, evidence, and knowledge doesn't do it, me in my little room at work or at home sure isn't able to. I hope you a nice day.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2004 3:43 pm 
Pharaoh
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Where do you work, Sekhers? If thats not too personal or something...


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2004 5:36 pm 
Pharaoh
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Not at all PharoahKel, i am a night nurse working with the develpmentally delayed. Because it is on the night shift and most nights my folks are asleep, that is okay my being asleep isn't... :) So anything that keeps one awake and alert is frequently okayed by the supervisors :wink:


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2004 5:40 pm 
Pharaoh
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Oh, thats awesome! Im glad youre allowed to get online during your job!


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 1:39 am 
Prince/Princess
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First off, i am only arguing such points because i want to make this place a bit more interesting,
- you yourself say you beleive that the aliens built the pyramd
- the bible does not allign with egypts history

Now imagine it this way. this is perhaps why there is no evidence of "development of technology"
first of all a realy long time ago the aliens came to earth and helped build the great pyramid, and the ones around it, then they left in the knowlege that a great flood was coming, now they would have taken themselves and all knowlege of thier technology, also alot of the physical evidence, and left the egyptians, sounds harsh but just think, then after the flood, narmer re-grouped the egyptians and continues with the ancient egyptian ways, then imotep and the other architiects want to re create the technology they once had, they tried to build the pyramids again, they built the bent pyramid and it didnt work, then they slowly worked down all the technology was slowly lost until it came to layering mastabas ontop of each other. the step pyramid was born, it was just a slow process of the dieing out of the egyptians,

i can guess that this is full of holes but this is just an outline, i want to research more on it,


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 1:44 am 
Prince/Princess
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and i think it is a great thing that u do such a good job, in aust we are having problems with the nurses, there are shortages and they are under pressure from hospital bed shortages


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 5:48 am 
Pharaoh
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If the aliens were able to come down to Earth and build this monumental structure, dont you think they would have enough power to figure out if there was definitely a flood coming and even prevent it? And how did they even find out about the flood in the first place?


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 7:16 am 
Pharaoh
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Tash wrote:
First off, i am only arguing such points because i want to make this place a bit more interesting,
- you yourself say you beleive that the aliens built the pyramd
- the bible does not allign with egypts history

Now imagine it this way. this is perhaps why there is no evidence of "development of technology"
first of all a realy long time ago the aliens came to earth and helped build the great pyramid, and the ones around it, then they left in the knowlege that a great flood was coming, now they would have taken themselves and all knowlege of thier technology, also alot of the physical evidence, and left the egyptians, sounds harsh but just think, then after the flood, narmer re-grouped the egyptians and continues with the ancient egyptian ways, then imotep and the other architiects want to re create the technology they once had, they tried to build the pyramids again, they built the bent pyramid and it didnt work, then they slowly worked down all the technology was slowly lost until it came to layering mastabas ontop of each other. the step pyramid was born, it was just a slow process of the dieing out of the egyptians,

i can guess that this is full of holes but this is just an outline, i want to research more on it,


Hi Tash, i do not believe aliens came down and built the Great Pyramid or even a little pyramid. If there are aliens, i do not believe they have ever interferred on Earth. Please quote my words, where you find me agreeing to aliens on earth and i will rewrite that section.

That Biblical and archaeological findings do not agree is evident to anyone with interest in the field. However, i have real, varifiable evidence that explains that reason. It does not require the rewriting of Egyptian history to realign with the Bible.

The Egyptians have no stories of a great flood that you want so badly to include in your interesting history. You must find early human history boring so you need to jazz it up. I am sorry, i have always found early human history exciting just looking at the ancients as they were. I have no need to dig up false stories, and this is what you are doing in insisting that the Egyptians were part of the Great Flood. They have no history of such a flood.

As for your outline outside of the misrepresentation of the flood in Egypt. Which is distressing to me because it is falsifing of history and further harms the reading public without intimate knowledge of Egyptian history. Otherwise i find your story idea charming and fully worthy of someone that gives credence to Mr. Dunn. I encourage you to continue to develop it. You may have a great future as a science fiction writer, but certainly not as a serious student of Egyptian history.


Last edited by Sekhmet on Tue Jun 22, 2004 9:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 8:26 am 
Prince/Princess
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And if Aliens have come to earth before (which I do not think they have) why have they not come back to Earth again.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 9:20 am 
Pharaoh
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Wait, I heard before that people do not think the Sphinx is in the likeness of Chephren because it had water damage that predated his reign and the pyramids had no such water damage.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 9:48 pm 
Pharaoh
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PharoahKel wrote:
Wait, I heard before that people do not think the Sphinx is in the likeness of Chephren because it had water damage that predated his reign and the pyramids had no such water damage.


You're right PharoahKel, it is the Sphinx that has its age disputed. Because the base of it does appear to have water damage. This is dated to somewhere about 10,500 BCE when Egypt last had a real rainy environment. However, the water damage may just as well have been suffered during repeated floodings of the Nile river in Pharonic Egypt. Nile flooding over and into the base of the Sphinx would have caused the same damage that a few want to date to 10,500 BCE, the wetter period of AE.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2004 1:30 am 
Prince/Princess
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LMAO, thankyou all, i really apreciate what you are doing for me, i realy sincerely am, i am learning loads, thanks, i have been hit hard and am looking for a bit more rebuttle, thanks, all i want is to learn,


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2004 6:37 am 
Pharaoh
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Hehe, We have all learned alot on this site!


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