All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 152 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 11  Next
 

Are the pyramids tombs?
Total votes : 0

Author Message
PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2004 3:54 pm 
Pharaoh
Offline

Joined:Thu Feb 19, 2004 11:24 pm
Posts:579
Location: Rome, Georgia USA
Regarding the flooding around the base of the Sphinx proving it is older than accepted... i don't recall any such supporter discounting the years of Nile flooding that happened in Egypt until the Aswan Dam was built. The Middle Kingdom frequently suffered flooding so severe that it lead to famine at times.

As for the Pyramid see below :oops:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/pyramid/ex ... lders.html
MARK LEHNER, Archaeologist, Oriental Institute of the University of Chicago, and Harvard Semitic Museum was interviewed by NOVA for a special on the Pyramids. Below is an excerpt from that article.

NOVA: You've made reference to inscriptions at Giza that indicate who built the pyramids. What do the inscriptions say?

LEHNER: One of the most compelling pieces of evidence we have is graffiti on ancient stone monuments in places that they didn't mean to be shown. Like on foundations when we dig down below the floor level, up in the relieving chambers above the King's chamber, and in many monuments of the Old Kingdom, temples, the Sun temples, other pyramids. Well, the graffiti gives us a picture of organization where crews, where a gang of workmen was organized into two crews. And the crews were subdivided into five phyles. The word phyles is spelled p-h-y-l-e-s. It's the Greek word for tribe. The Egyptian word is za. They were divided into five za's. In later times when the Greeks came and in bilingual inscriptions, when somebody was translating za into Greek they used the word phyles, the word for tribe, which is extremely interesting actually.
Were these militaristic kinds of conscripts? Certainly they weren't slaves. Could they actually have been natural communities of the Nile Valley kind of contributing like the way the Inca build their bridges and so on? .....So the phyles then are subdivided into divisions. And the divisions are identified by single hieroglyphs with names that mean things like endurance, perfection, strong. OK, so how do we know this -- you come to a block of stone in the relieving chambers above the Great Pyramid. And first of all you see this cartouche of a King and then some scrawls all in red paint after it. That's the gang name. And in the Old Kingdom in the time of the Pyramids of Giza, the gangs were named after kings. So for example, we have a name, compounded with the name of Menkaure, and it seems to translate 'the drunks or the drunkards of Menkaure.' There's one that's well attested, actually in the relieving chambers above the Great Pyramid, the Friends of Khufu gang, the Drunks of Menkaura gang, and then you have the green phyles and then the powerful ones. None of this sounds like slavery, does it?


Top
 Profile  
 

PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2004 3:56 am 
Prince/Princess
Offline

Joined:Sun Apr 18, 2004 7:13 pm
Posts:324
Location: N.S.W Austalia
True true, i have absolutly no doubts that willing people were more than ready to work for the king, if a building project like that came up i would be more than ready to help.

But still what about
-why the pyramids were built
-who put the order through to build it (which Pharoh)
-what it was used for
-how did they build it
-when did they build it


Top
 Profile  
 

PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2004 3:57 am 
We already know when, 10,500 BC.


Top
  
 

PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2004 4:02 am 
Prince/Princess
Offline

Joined:Sun Apr 18, 2004 7:13 pm
Posts:324
Location: N.S.W Austalia
ok,
-why the pyramids were built
-who put the order through to build it (which Pharoh)
-what it was used for
-how did they build it
-when did they build it = 10,500 BCE (before current era)

Any other suggestions


Top
 Profile  
 

PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2004 4:10 am 
Prince/Princess
Offline

Joined:Sun Apr 18, 2004 7:13 pm
Posts:324
Location: N.S.W Austalia
Hedge.
also can you provide a refrence to why you say 10 500 BCE please, just so there is a little back up


Top
 Profile  
 

PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2004 4:12 am 
I posted it earlier, I don't have time to copy it, as I should've left for school about 5 minutes ago.


Top
  
 

PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2004 9:58 am 
Pharaoh
Offline

Joined:Thu Feb 19, 2004 11:24 pm
Posts:579
Location: Rome, Georgia USA
Tash wrote:
True true, i have absolutly no doubts that willing people were more than ready to work for the king, if a building project like that came up i would be more than ready to help.

But still what about
-why the pyramids were built
-who put the order through to build it (which Pharoh)
-what it was used for
-how did they build it
-when did they build it


Hi Tash regarding your questions.
Why the pyramids were built. There is a section of the Book of the Dead that speaks of the stairway to heaven where the King departs earth to join the gods and his ancestors in heaven. It is believed that this is why the pyramids were built.

Who put the order through ...
Menkaure put the order for his through. In the pyramid of Khufu there are the same such inscriptions by the gangs that built his pyramid they include the gang called "friends of Khufu". There is no reason to believe that the King named as the owner of a certain tomb is other than who ordered it.

What was it used for?
It was a sure way, stairway to heaven for the dead King to enter the company of his gods and ancestors.

How did they build it?
Please visit the NOVA site it has wonderful information on the hows :) There is another aspect of building that is lacking in today's world. The WORD of the ABSOLUTE GOD ON EARTH wanting it built. When Pharaoh spoke his want folks did it whether or not it was possible wasn't considered. Who was going to say "Hey, Pharaoh sweetheart, that isn't possible?"

When did they build it?
Well we know that Khufu, Menkaure built theirs before their deaths. It stands to reason that if we accept that the pyramid was built by the Pharaoh it names as it's owner it must have been built during their life.


Top
 Profile  
 

PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2004 12:25 am 
Prince/Princess
Offline

Joined:Sun Apr 18, 2004 7:13 pm
Posts:324
Location: N.S.W Austalia
fair enough. ihave read about king khufu building the pyramids using 100 000 workers, in 28 years, if that were to happen, one block of stone would have to be cut quarried and erected every two minutes without interuption or accident continualy from the day the king got to the throne to the day he died.


Top
 Profile  
 

PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2004 5:05 am 
Pharaoh
Offline

Joined:Thu Feb 19, 2004 11:24 pm
Posts:579
Location: Rome, Georgia USA
Tash wrote:
fair enough. ihave read about king khufu building the pyramids using 100 000 workers, in 28 years, if that were to happen, one block of stone would have to be cut quarried and erected every two minutes without interuption or accident continualy from the day the king got to the throne to the day he died.


Hi again Tash, gosh! pop goes the weasel! How about trying some recent readings other than Herodotus?!

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/pyramid/ex ... lders.html
MARK LEHNER, Archaeologist, Oriental Institute of the University of Chicago, and Harvard Semitic Museum was interviewed by NOVA for a special on the Pyramids. Below is another excerpt from that article.

NOVA: Herodotus, the Greek historian, wrote that 100,000 workers built the pyramids and modern Egyptologists come up with a figure more like 20,000 workers. Can you explain that for us?

LEHNER: Yeah, well, first of all Herodotus just claims he was told that. He said, 100,000 men working in three shifts, which raises some doubt, I guess if you read it in the original Greek as to whether it's three shifts of 100,000 men each or whether you subdivide, you know, the 100,000 men. But my own approach to this stems to some extent from "This Old Pyramid." You know, the popular film that was done by NOVA [where we attempted to build a small pyramid at Giza]. And certainly we didn't replicate ancient technology 100 percent because there's no way we could replicate the entire ancient society that surrounded this technology. So our stones were delivered by a flatbed truck as opposed to barges. You know, we didn't reconstruct the barges that brought the 60-ton granite blocks from Aswan. So basically what we were doing is, as we say in the film and in the accompanying book, that we're setting up the ability to test particular tools, techniques and operations, without testing the entire building project.

One of the things that most impressed me, though, was the fact that in 21 days, 12 men in bare feet, living out in the eastern desert, opened a new quarry in about the time we needed stone for our NOVA Pyramid, and in 21 days they quarried 186 stones. Now they did it with an iron winch, you know, an iron cable and a winch that pulled the stone away from the quarry wall, and all their tools were iron. But other than that they did it by hand. So I said, taking just a raw figure, if 12 men in bare feet -- they lived in a lean-to shelter, day and night out there -- if they can quarry 186 stones in 21 days, let's do the simple math and see, just in a very raw simplistic calculation, how many men were required to deliver 340 stones a day, which is what you would have to deliver to the Khufu Pyramid to build it in 20 years. And it comes out somewhere between -- I've got this all written down -- but it comes out in the hundreds of men. Now I was bothered by the iron tools, like 400 men, 4 to 500 men. I was bothered by the iron tools, especially the iron winch that pulled the stone away from the quarry walls, so I said, let's put in a team of men, of about say 20 men, so that 12 men become 32. And now let's run the equation. Well, it turns out that even if you give great leeway for the iron tools, all 340 stones could have been quarried in a day by something like 1,200 men. And that's quarried locally at Giza. You see most of the stone is local stone.

So then because of our mapping and because of our approach where we looked at, what is the shape of the ground here, where's the quarry, where is the pyramid, let's see, where would the ramp have run, we could come up with a figure of how many men it would take to schlep the stones up to the pyramid. Now it's often said that the stones were delivered at a rate of one every two minutes or so. And New Agers sometimes point that out as an impossibility for the Egyptians of Khufu's day. But the stones didn't go in one after another, you see. And you can actually work out the coefficient of friction or glide on a slick surface, how much an average stone weighed, how many men it would take to pull that. And in a NOVA experiment we found that 12 men could pull a 1.5 ton block over a slick surface with great ease. And then you could come up with very conservative estimates as to the number of men it would take to pull an average size block the distance from the quarry, which we know, to the pyramid. And you could even factor in different configurations of the ramp which would give you a different length.

Well, working in such ways, and I challenge anybody to join in the challenge, it comes out that you can actually get the delivery that you need. You need 340 stones delivered you see, every day, and that's 34 stones every hour in a ten hour day, right. Thirty-four stones can get delivered by x number of gangs of 20 men, and it comes out to something like 2,000, somewhere in that area. We can go over the exact figures. So now we've got 1200 men in the quarry which is a very generous estimate, 2,000 men delivering. And so that's 3,200. OK, how about men cutting the stones and setting them? Well, it's different between the core stones which were set with great slop factor, and the casing stones which were custom cut and set, one to another, with so much accuracy that you can't get a knife blade in between the joints, so there's a difference there. But let's gloss over that for a moment.

One of the things the NOVA experiment showed me that no book could, is just what is it like to have a 2 or 3-ton block -- how many men can get their hands on it? Well, you can't have 50 men working on one block, you see. And you can only get about four or five, six guys at most working on a block, say two on levers, you know, cutters and so on. And you know, you put pivots under it and as few as two or three guys can pivot it around if you put a hard cobble under it. There are all these tricks they know. But it's just impossible to get too many men on a block. But you figure out how many stones have to be set to keep up with this rate, to get in with 20 years. And it actually comes up 5,000 or less men, including the stone setters. Now the stone setting gets a bit complicated because of the casing, and you have one team working from each corner, and another team working in the middle of each face for the casing and then the core. And I'm going to gloss over that.

But the challenge is out there: 5,000 men to actually do the building and the quarrying and the schlepping from the local quarry. This doesn't count the men cutting the granite and shipping it from Aswan or the men over in Tura. OK, so that increases the numbers somewhat....And that's what things like the ancient technologies series done by NOVA really bring home, I think. No, we're not recreating ancient society, and ancient pyramid building 100 percent. And probably not even 60 percent. But we are showing some nuts and bolts that are very useful and insightful, far more than all the armchair theorizing.

Go check out the entire article it is wonderful!
Please remember what Orisis II said it is true... the Egyptians learned by progressive improvment over what had already been learned. It wasn't like one day Khufu said "Hey i want to build a perfect, great pyramid and this is how we are going to do it." His father Snefern built 3 pyramids, the first an improvment over the Step Pyramid. The second is called the bent pyramid its sides were to steep and it collapsed during the construction. The third was the Red Pyramid and it had the correct incline for the sides.


Top
 Profile  
 

PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2004 5:29 am 
Pharaoh
Offline

Joined:Mon Aug 25, 2003 5:22 am
Posts:1028
Location: Pennsylvania
[quote="Sekhmet"]Hi Tash regarding your questions.
Why the pyramids were built. There is a section of the Book of the Dead that speaks of the stairway to heaven where the King departs earth to join the gods and his ancestors in heaven. It is believed that this is why the pyramids were built.

[quote]

Hey Sekhy, I am not sure about this, but I believed that the Step Pyramids were regarded as Stairways to Heaven, but a flat sided pyramid such as Khufus, was shaped that way, symbolizing the rays of the sun that the Pharoah would accompany up to Heaven as they set. Sorry run- on sentence :D


Top
 Profile  
 

PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2004 6:23 am 
Pharaoh
Offline

Joined:Thu Feb 19, 2004 11:24 pm
Posts:579
Location: Rome, Georgia USA
PharoahKel wrote:
Sekhmet wrote:
Hi Tash regarding your questions.
Why the pyramids were built. There is a section of the Book of the Dead that speaks of the stairway to heaven where the King departs earth to join the gods and his ancestors in heaven. It is believed that this is why the pyramids were built.

Quote:

Hey Sekhy, I am not sure about this, but I believed that the Step Pyramids were regarded as Stairways to Heaven, but a flat sided pyramid such as Khufus, was shaped that way, symbolizing the rays of the sun that the Pharoah would accompany up to Heaven as they set. Sorry run- on sentence :D


You might be right about the about the rays of the sun. However, and please correct me if i am wrong... but isn't there a very long stairway crossing the Grand Galley within the Great Pyramid leading to the King's burial chamber? If i am right perhaps the ancients figured out how to kill two birds with one stone :lol: As for run on sentences, i am the queen of them :) don't sweat the small stuff, here PharoahKel :)


Top
 Profile  
 

PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2004 6:28 am 
Pharaoh
Offline

Joined:Mon Aug 25, 2003 5:22 am
Posts:1028
Location: Pennsylvania
Yea, there is... hmm... Yea, maybe that was symbolic too! Or maybe it was just a back up, incase the rays of the sun thing didnt work :wink:


Top
 Profile  
 

PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2004 2:13 am 
Prince/Princess
Offline

Joined:Sun Apr 18, 2004 7:13 pm
Posts:324
Location: N.S.W Austalia
I myself havnt seen the film in witch that the men built the small pyramid, but i have heard about it. but i still cannot help thinking

Extract from the coral castle mystery by chris dunn,

http://www.atlantisrising.com/issue12/a ... astle.html

Let's not forget Mr. Merle Booker (deceased) of the Indiana USA Limestone Institute, who prepared an estimate for the delivery of enough limestone to build a Great Pyramid. Using the same criteria, with respect to size and quantity, as the ancient pyramid builders, but using modern equipment, his estimate included tripling the average output of all 33 Indiana limestone quarries. The estimate did not factor in any equipment failures, labor disputes or acts-of-God. He estimated that twenty seven years after the order was placed, the last stone would have been delivered!

i also have to ask about why he glossed over the fact that the pyramids were so well put together, aligned north, the fact you cant fit a postcard between them, well as you may know, when you put a 2.5 ton stone down it stays down, there is no tapping it gently into place.


Top
 Profile  
 

PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2004 5:46 am 
Pharaoh
Offline

Joined:Mon Aug 25, 2003 5:22 am
Posts:1028
Location: Pennsylvania
Im a little confused about that last post Tash?


Top
 Profile  
 

PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2004 5:52 am 
Prince/Princess
Offline

Joined:Sun Apr 18, 2004 7:13 pm
Posts:324
Location: N.S.W Austalia
sry,
well this,

Let's not forget Mr. Merle Booker (deceased) of the Indiana USA Limestone Institute, who prepared an estimate for the delivery of enough limestone to build a Great Pyramid. Using the same criteria, with respect to size and quantity, as the ancient pyramid builders, but using modern equipment, his estimate included tripling the average output of all 33 Indiana limestone quarries. The estimate did not factor in any equipment failures, labor disputes or acts-of-God. He estimated that twenty seven years after the order was placed, the last stone would have been delivered!

was an extract from chris dunns article in atlantis rising, which u can find here:
http://www.atlantisrising.com/issue12/a ... astle.html

Then there is the fact about the accuracy of the pyramids alignment and such, and with a 2.5 ton block of stone is impossibe to just tap it into place once it is put down,


Top
 Profile  
 

Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 152 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 11  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


  Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Style by web designer custom , optymalizacja seo pozycjonowanie stron pozycjonowanie
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group