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About Nefertari > Question??? please answer
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2003 11:41 pm 
Did she and Ramses II have a son?????? what was the son name


also did the son die of strange death?


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2003 9:03 am 
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Ramses himself has quite a few sons.... I know that he had over a hundred kids. Nefertari had at least four of these children. I'm not sure off-hand if any of them were sons though. Could anybody help me out?


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2003 10:32 am 
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i know that she did have at least one son-


his name was Amunherkhepeshef- he was known as Amunherwenemef until his father's coronation as pharaoh. He was crown prince from regnal years 1 to 40. He died between the age of forty and fifty-five.

She also is said to have had a son named- Pareherwenemef- but there is not much information about him, but he probably died before regnal year 30.

Mery-Re I-- is also believed to have been the son of Nefertari, and he probably died in his twenties.

That is all the information I have on the sons of Nefertari, I will probably be donig more research on it at later dates.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2003 1:44 pm 
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This is a copy of one of my posts at AncientTimes.

THE SONS OF RAMESSES II

AMUN-HIR-KHOPSEF ("Amun Is With His Strong Arm"; No. 1 on the "Prince List" ). Son of Nefertari. He was born before his father became king, and he was crown prince for a long time (but as we know, Ramesses outlived 12 of his sons.) He is known by other names too; before his father became pharaoh, Amun-hir-khopsef was called Amun-hir-hewenef, and sometimes he was called Seth-her-khopsef. He held many titles including "Commander of the Troops", "Royal Scribe" and "Sem-Priest of the Good God." These indicate that he had an imortant role in religious, military and state affairs. He died after the 40th regnal year. It's an interesting theory that he might be the prince who is mentioned in the Bible as the pharaoh's firstborn who dead when all the firstborn sons in Egypt died.

RAMESSES (No. 2 on the Prince List). Son of Isetnofret. He became crown prince after his half-brother's death.

PA-RE-HER-HEWENEF ("Ra Is On His Right Hand"; No. 3 on the Prince List). Son of Nefertari. He died before the 30th year of Ramesses II.

KHAEMWASET ("Born in Thebes"; No. 4 on the Prince List). Son of Isetnofret. He was a very intelligent man and respected as a great scholar and magician. He became the High Priest of Ptah at Mennefer (Memphis) about the 25th year. The restoration of old temples and monuments was also his idea. It is unknown whether he was crown prince, but if he was, it was only for a short time. He could have been married to a lady called Nubnofret. He had a son named Naneferkaptah who was thought to be a magician and became a legendary figure after his death.
Khaemwaset died about the 52th year.

MONTU-HIR-KHOPSEF (also called Montu-hir-hewenef; No. 5 on the Prince List)

NEBENKHARU (No. 6 on the Prince List)

MERIAMUN ("Beloved of Amun"; No. 7 on the Prince List)

AMUNEMWEYA ("Amun In The Divine Bark", also called Sethemweya; No. 8 on the Prince List)

SETHI (No. 9 on the Prince List)

SETEPENRE ("Chose One of Re"; No. 10 on the Prince List)

MERIRE ("Beloved of Re"; No. 11 on the Prince List). Son of Nefertari.

HOR-HIR-WENEMEF (No. 12 on the Prince List)

MERENPTAH ("Beloved of Ptah"; No. 13 on the Prince List). Son of Isetnofret. He was the eldest son who outlived Ramesses II so he became pharaoh and ruled for about 10 years. He became Crown Prince in the 55th year of his father. He moved the capital from Per-Ramesses (a city founded by Ramesses II) back to Memphis. Almost all his inscriptions are about military campaigns, and on one stelae he mentions Israel which is interesting, for it's the first non-Biblical text that's about Israel. Merenptah married his sister Isetnofret and their son Sethi-Merenptah (Sethi II) became pharaoh after Merenptah's death, but was soon removed and Amenmesse (possibly his half-brother) ascended the throne. Merenptah's daughter Tawosret was the last ruler of the 19th dynasty.

AMENHOTEP ("Amun Is Pleased"; No. 14 on the Prince List)

ITAMEN (No. 15 on the Prince List)

MERIATUM ("Beloved of Atum"; No. 16 on the Prince List). Son of Nefertari. He was the High Priest of Heliopolis.

I've also read somewhere that Sethnakht, the first pharaoh of the 20th dynasty might have been a son of Ramesses II & Maathorneferure, Princess of Hatti. His wife Tiye-Mereniset was possibly Merenptah's daughter.

Ramesses had a total of 96 sons as far as I know, but these ones are the most known.


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Nefertari
PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2003 5:12 pm 
Maybee you should do some research on Nefertari


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2003 8:23 am 
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Not an awful llot is known about her for certain although the fact that she never claims the title 'King's Daughter' implies she was not of noble birth. It may be that she was simply a noble of the same rank as Ramses who, it must remember was a young boy when his grandfather Ramses I became king. A marriage with the daughter of a local noble may have already been arranged for him at his birth.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2003 12:47 pm 
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Well, I don't know much about this, but I do know that one of Nefertari's daughters was Meryetamun. Hmmm, where have I heard that name before? No, don't tell me... :lol:


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2003 3:24 am 
What really bugs me is the fact that everyone always states that Meritamun was Nefertari and Ramses's eldest daughter when this is in fact not the case.
We know that Ramses eldest daughter was Bintanath by Iset Nofret however his eldest daughtewr by Nefertari was Princess Baketmut, then comes Nefertari II, then comes Meritamun, then Nebtauwi, all daughters of Nefertari. Daughter number 6 is Iset Nofret II and number seven is Henuitauwi. The names and statues of all six of thew first daughters appear beside the collosal statues of Ramses at Abu Simbel. Meritamun may have been the eldest surviving daughter of Ramses and Nefertari as baketmut and nefertari II appear to have died young.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2003 3:25 am 
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Sorry the above was left by me Kiya but I seem to be having problems signing in.


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The children of Ramesses II part 2 -- The princesses
PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2003 11:09 am 
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Okay, so this is a somewhat modified followup to my post there. :) Guess someone might be interested.


The Daughters of Ramesses II

BINTANATH ("Anath Is Resplendent" in Egyptian, "Daughter of Anath" in Canaanite; No. 1 on the "Princess List" ). Daughter of Isetnofret. Firstborn daughter of Ramesses. Later she became Great Royal Wife (probably after the deat of her mother, the Great Royal Wife Isetnofret.) Her name contains the name of a Canaanite goddess, Anath. Foreign gods and goddesses might have gained importance in this period. Other children of Ramesses are also named after Astarte (another foreign goddess.) She is buried at QV 71 where she is depicted her daughter Bintanath. She outlived Ramesses for she appears on a statue of Merenptah where she is mentioned as "King's Daughter, King's Wife, King's Sister". This can be an evidence that she also married her brother Merenptah but it seems unlikely to me for she, as eldest daughter of Ramesses, was probably much older than the 13th son Merenptah and surely was past child-bearing age, furthermore, the Heiress theory can't really be applied at 19th dynasty rulers.

BAKETMUT ("Servant of Mut"; No. 2 on the Princess List). She has a statue at Abu Simbel, otherwise there's nothing known about her.

NEFERTARI ("The Most Beautiful"; No. 3 on the Princess List). Just like Baketmut, she has a statue at Abu Simbel, but there's nothing else known about her.

MERITAMEN ("Beloved of Amun"; No. 4 on the Princess List). Daughter of Nefertari. Like Bintanath, she became Great Royal Wife after her mother's death, around Year 24. She was also a Singer of Amun and Priestess of Hathor. Mostly known for her beautiful statue found at the Ramesseum; it's called "The White Queen" because of its color. She was buried at QV 68, fragments of her red granite sarcophagus are found.

NEBETTAWY ("Lady of the Two Lands"; No. 5 on the Princess List). Daughter of Nefertari or Isetnofret. She also became a wife of Ramesses. Buried at QV 60. Her tomb had been robbed in the ancient times and later was used as a Christian chapel.

ISETNOFRET ("Isis Is Beautiful"; No. 6 on the Princess List). Daughter of Isetnofret. She was the wife of her brother, Pharaoh Merenptah.

HENUTTAWY ("Mistress of the Two Lands"; No. 7 on the Princess List). Daughter of Nefertari. Sometimes she is given the title "Lady of the Two Lands" which can mean that she married Ramesses just like her elder sisters did.


Now there are several other daughters, I won't list all the names, just some of them, for it seems interesting:

HENUTMIRE, formerly thought to be a younger sister of Ramesses but now she is thought to be a daughter. (Maybe her title "King's Sister" comes from the reign of Merenptah, like Bintanath's?) Buried at Queen's Valley 75. Her tomb has been robbed, red granite sarcophagus is now in the Museum of Cairo.

NEFERURE ("Beauty of Re"; No. 35 on the Princess List). Daughter of Maathorneferure, Princess of Hatti. Her grandfather Hattushilish II of Hatti wrote in a letter that if this child were a boy he could be the Crown Prince of Hatti.

(Edited by Neferuaten at 8:37 am on Oct. 3, 2002)


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2003 11:54 am 
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That's great, what's your source. I can add something to your comments on Bintanath as I have been discussing the same subject with a friend of mne for years. Yes a statue of Bintanath appears in Merneptahs's temple giving her the title's 'Royal Sister, Royal Daughter, Great Royal Wife'. Now seeing as Bintanath the elder was older than Merneptah, in her 70's at least, and effectively his widowed stepmother, it is unlkely that Merneptah would have married her. It is more likely that the Bintanath in the statue was the daughter of Ramses and Bintanath. Her name is aparently not stated in the tomb of her mother but the titles 'Royal Sister, Royal Daughter, Great Royal Wife' could apply equally to her daughter as to her.
We know that the chief queen of Merneptah was Iset Nofret II but that didn't stop Amenhotep III from bestowing the title of 'great Royal Wife' on several of his daughters while still married to Tiy.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2003 7:41 am 
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Oh, how could it not click to me that it had to be the second Bintanath! Now it makes sense.
BTW my source is mainly the Internet, there's a cool German page with info on Ramses' family but I don't remember the link right now, I'll post it if anyone understands German here.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2003 4:26 pm 
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You should read 'Ramesses' by Joyce Tyldesly. It's the best source of Ramses info I have ever seen.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 3:58 am 
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Yes, I have it. I like Tyldesley's books.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2003 12:19 pm 
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I almost bought that book last week! I love her "Nefertiti" and "Hatchepsut" books, they're really good.


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