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PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2004 5:40 am 
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I will bite my tongue, so DM_28 doesnt have to :D


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2004 5:46 am 
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Bel, You have to understand that its very hard for any of us to believe you, as I have read many claims about people being Hatshepsut, and so have many of the other people.


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Hatshepsut
PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2004 7:17 am 
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I was just giving thought to that this morning. It does seem unusual that of all the pharoah's, Harshepsut is the only re-incarnate I ever really hear about. I once went to a spiritual channeler whom had 9 doctorates to his name. He told me about Hatshepsut and many other past life's (of mine)from Egypt. I am sorry to hear that it is not believed that reincarnation has and does occur. It seem's very sad! Like I said before reincarnation to me is like trying to convince people that God is alive in all of us. Nobody is going to believe that either simply because it came from my mouth. It is something each person must experience on their own. My point is not really to convince people that I am reincarnate because that is totally unimportant. What is important is that we study their religious belief's along w/everything else they did. Being pharoah makes religion of the upmost importance you understand?


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2004 7:24 am 
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But then what is your point?


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study
PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2004 7:14 am 
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I have been studying religion since I was very young. I was raised Baptist and was taught that in order to be saved I had to join the church. One morning the pastor of our church came to our house (I was probably about 7) and asked me if I was ready to die for God. I got so freaked out (I thought I was really fixing to die); my folk's never made me go to church again. I went to a methodist church for kindergarten and w/neighbor's down the street of my own free will. I searched and searched for that house that I felt I could take as it's truth's as also my own. I wanted so to be saved w/out being a hippocrite. It took me my entire lifetime to get to where I am now. I can expand on the spiritual channeling but since it is not believed what would be the point? I bring up the fact of the reincarnation because it is my truth that I would like to share w/other's. The Lord bestow's gift's upon us all and they are not alway's the same. I have remembered almost like a trance of day's long ago of my soul's presence in Ancient Egypt. I understand their way's in way's alot of people never will. This is why I bring it up. Hopefully to shed new light upon the living. Have I not said anything spiritually of meaning to this forum or has it all gone right over everybody's head because of the mention of reincarnation?


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2004 7:57 am 
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I understand you Bel , reincarnation is a very argued topic one of my friends believes she had a past life and no matter if I believe in them or not I always listen to her. I have never told her weather I do or not cause I truly do not know myself. It's kind of like Evolution in a way if someoe does believe in it they feel it is the only really possibility. If someone does not they feel it makes not sense and is totally crazy.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2004 8:44 am 
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If you're interested in examing past lives, I suggest Reading "The Search for Omm Sety". She was an Engishwoman, Dorothy Eady, who believed she was an Egyptian priestess and had had a long-lasting affair with Seti I. Although I've never really thought about any belief in re-incarnation, this book is a very thought-provoking read--some of the things she said and some of her actions--she observed the old religious holidays in Seti's Abydos Temple--were strangely believable. It was a very interesting book...


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addition and subtraction
PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2004 7:00 am 
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Thank's, you guy's! How very interesting about the Omm Sety...looking forward to going to the library yet again. I will add here that I did not alway's believe in reincarnation. It was something I was only open minded to, in search of my religious home. It takes courage to step out on the limb and claim to be of something not seen, very seldom understood, and certainly not proven. All the same there is no going back. It is now my way to take the Lord's hand and follow him where ever he wish's to take me. To color my world lovely for my Lord just as Hatshepsut did w/her temple. I annoint myself w/myrrh resin in the morning's and have more coming from a doctor friend that is in the middle east as we speak.
Thank's again you guy's for your support and direction's to Omm Sety! Really gives me soomething to get excited about and look forward too!


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reminder
PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2004 7:16 am 
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Ankhesenamun3 wrote:
I understand you Bel , reincarnation is a very argued topic one of my friends believes she had a past life and no matter if I believe in them or not I always listen to her. I have never told her weather I do or not cause I truly do not know myself. It's kind of like Evolution in a way if someoe does believe in it they feel it is the only really possibility. If someone does not they feel it makes not sense and is totally crazy.

Remind's me of what happen's to us when we die. It is like the state of dream's. Another deminsion that we step off into. Haunting's occur because of tragic loss and the soul's are lost in their torment. It is a very sad thing. Going even further than the reincarnation statement I will tell you now that I have been bestowed a gift from the heaven's. I am able to communicate w/spirit's. I will add that I do not necessarily go out looking for them but since I am open to them they seek me out. Remind's me....several yr's ago my son went to New Orlean's and stayed in a haunted Mansion. He was sitting on the bed w/a friend and they were eating something and all of a sudden he said he got really cold, started shaking and tear's just started flowing down his check's. He got frightened and ran outside. I felt him and his position from far away. I would really like to be able to make my way in this world helping those lost soul's make their way into the light, but just like reincarnation...can't prove to people you've cleaned a house because they do not see ghost's and are not aware of their presence. So it isn't really in the convincing of other's that light is shown but the willingness to be a vehicle. Therefore in saying I'm not mentioning to anyone here that you should take my truth as your own. Only working to shed new light. And no I'm not schizo or anything like that!
Many more story's I have to share in that department but as the Board of this forum would say that definately has no place on an Egyptian forum. Mentioning here merely as in depth. I am open to conversation on this matter if anybody would like to discuss it. Probably would be best done in the coffee lounge or PM.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2004 8:41 am 
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bel,
The Omm Sety book is by Jonathan Cott. It is older, published in 1987 shortly after Omm Sety's death.
As I said in the above, it is a very interesting study of her life. Before I read it, I had heard of her, but dismissed it as just the ramblings of questioning material. But as I said, she was quite an out-standing lady, and things she said about ancient Egypt have been shown to be true. For instance, she was very positive that there was, at one time, a garden around Seti I's Abydos temple. All Eghyptologist discounted that, saying that the temple was not a site that would have supported any garden. But then, when a sewer-line was being laid, and exactly in the spot where she had said were beautiful trees, an extensive root system was discovered, along with channels to carry water to the sites! (several root systems were uncovered.)
All of the information in the book is very interesting.


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Pages rent
PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2004 8:04 am 
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Again thank's so much I made a note of this author and am looking forward to my next visit to the library.
I don't dwell in the land of ancient egypt to much as I would not be living w/in this one. So I do not try to remember everything. Most of my memorie's have come from my drawing's before the recollection's started. I haven't drawn in a very long time. I bought a house and most of my time and energy goes into my home and fixing it up. It us to puzzle me a great deal how ironic thing's were coming together in my life and the way the coincided w/my art. Now I just have to except that the Lord work's through me in mysterious way's and I just let the light shine in and through.
I drew a picture of Hatshpsut's temple before I was even aware of her existence. Also I drew a sphinx w/pyramid's behind it, anubis in the foreground ect. This picture is what really lead me on my discovery's of time's long ago. My life unfold's according to my art, poetry etc. It is a very interesting thing to happen considering the fac there are no such thing's a coincidence's. I believe everything happen's for a reason.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2004 5:57 am 
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But Bel, if you believe in God so much, than how can you believe in reincarnation? Let me ask you this, What is your theory on how the earth and the people on it were formed?


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2004 12:37 pm 
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bel wrote:
REINCARNATION IN ANCIENT EGYPT?

The Confraternity of the Rose Cross, CR+C, attempts to help a student remember more about his or her past lives. This is done naturally. It is not forced. Nor is it an essential to mystical growth to have specific recalls. Memory comes when it will come. In this, we do not find hypnosis an essential to this process. The past best reveals itself when it is needed for us to better go forward. Knowingly or unknowingly, we do from who we've been. The essential thing is our closer and closer communication with our heart.

But, did these ancient Egyptians believe in reincarnation? Herodotus tells us that's where the ancient Greeks learned about it. Egyptologist Dr. Margaret A. Murray, in "The Splendour that was Egypt" states, "The ka-names of the first two kings of the XIIth dynasty show this belief clearly. Amonenhat I's name was 'He who repeats births', and Senusert I's name was 'He whose births live.' In the XIX dynasty the ka-name of Setekhy I was 'Repeater of births'..."

In the Egyptian Book of the Dead we read, "I am the Benu, the soul of Ra, and the guide of the gods in the Tuat (underworld). Their divine souls come forth upon the earth to do the will of their kas, let therefore the soul of Osiris Ani come forth to do the will of his ka. ...

"Homage to thee Osiris, O Governor of those who are in Amenti (heaven) who maketh mortals to be born again, who renewest thy youth....

"Nebensi, the lord of reverence, saith: 'I am Yesterday, Today, and Tomorrow, (and I have) the power to be born a second time."

Dr. Murray states, "Pythagoras is usually credited with having invented the theory of reincarnation, but it was already hoary with age before the Greeks had emerged from barbarism."5

Osiris in his character as a great being among men asks, "How long... have I to live? (answer) It is decreed that thou shalt live for millions and millions of years. (Osiris) May it be granted unto me that I pass on unto the holy princes, for indeed, I am doing away with all the wrong which I did, from the time when this earth came into being."

In Manfred Lurker's "The Gods and Symbols of Ancient Egypt" we find another quote from the Book of the Dead, "Undergoing my repeated births I remain powerful and young."

Ralph M. Lewis, Past Rosicrucian Imperator, encouraged Rosicrucians to distinguish between those teachings used by some Egyptian Priesthood to instill fear and those teachings of the advanced Egyptian Mystery Schools to provide enlightenment. Mr. Lewis related, "There is no doubt that the conception of reincarnation had its inception in Egypt....6

In considering reincarnation the ancient Egyptians entertained ideas about the ka and the ba. Their precise meaning can be baffling. This writer interprets the ba to be the soul personality that parts from the body at death. On the other hand, the ka, so often associated with the heart, was the summation of all our past lives expressions. In other words, our ka is the accumulation of our many bas. I may have the whole thing reversed. However, the amazing thing is that such thoughts were entertained so long ago.
(Snip)
The principle of reincarnation is another of ancient Egypt's great mystic gifts to the world.

Considering these fact's as scientific proof my question to you is thus:
If is is not the truth's of Ancient Egypt in which you seek why are you on this forum?


Dear Bel, i am on this board to continue my age old research on Ancient Egypt also to help folks learn more if possible.
Long ago i considered the possibilities of reincarnation, however i dismissed it as lacking in satisfaction for me. Later i convinced many folks i was the reincarnated cupbearer of Tutankhamun. I found it easy, who could argue with me? It helped also, that i didn't claim to be Tutankhamun, but a servant. :)
So few claim this status, don't you agree? Are only the greats open to being reborn? Funny, in the Hindu religion where reincarnation is acceptable. The higher ones caste is in life, the closer one is to not being reborn again but finding; reaching Nirvana, i.e., nothingness.

Now i am not knowledgable on the Confraternity of the Rose Cross, CR+C, or even the Rosicrucian but on ancient Egypt. i do have some knowledge of and i found some of your quotes misleading and questionable. i hope i can post my questions and objections to them without being hung out as some kind of bigot.

First "Egyptologist Dr. Margaret A. Murray, in "The Splendour that was Egypt" states, "The ka-names of the first two kings of the XIIth dynasty show this belief clearly. Amonenhat I's name was 'He who repeats births', and Senusert I's name was 'He whose births live.'"
While this is in and by itself is true, i see it as a misapplication of the truth and an attempt to imply more than what is in reality being said.
Why the reference to the Ka name? The Ka names are better known as the Horus name of the King. Isn't this an attempt here to use them, to cast a spirituality that isn't meant by the ancients themselves?
Amonenhat I as is spelled in your source is more normally known as Amenemhat I. Your source appears to leave a great deal out regarding his names and life in the effort to underscore her belief. It is a well known technique that folks that want to use information for a specific reason often cut and paste in support their positions.
Amenemhat I - Titulary -
http://www.ancient-egypt.org/kings/1201 ... ulary.html
1. First part of the reign
Horus-name- Hr sHtp ib tA.wj - Horus, who satisfies the heart of the Two Lands.

Nebti-name- nb.tj sHtp ib tA.wj - The Two Ladies, the one who satisfies the Two Lands.

Golden name- bik nbw smA - The Golden Falcon that unites.

Prenomen- sHtp ib ra - Sehetepibre ("The one who satisfies the heart of Re").

Nomen- imn m HA(.t) - Amenemhat ("Amun is the foremost").

2. Second part of the reign

Horus-name -Hr wHm ms.wt - Horus, repeated of births.

Nebti-name -nb.tj wHm ms.wt -The Two Ladies, the one who repeats births.

Golden name -bik nbw ms -The Golden Falcon that is born.

or: bik nbw wHm ms.(w)t - The Golden Falcon that repeats births.

Prenomen -sHtp ib ra - Sehetepibre or nsw bi.tj sHtp ib ra

The king of Upper and Lower Egypt Sehetepibre.

Nomen -imn m HA.t - Amenemhat ("Amun is the foremost")
or: imn m HA.tj-a - Amenemhatia ("Amun is the hereditary noble"). This variant is likely to be a deliberate mis-spelling of the name Amenemhat, intended to promote the importance and power of the god Amun
or: sA ra imn m HA.t - The son of Re, Amenemhat

I find this interesting that not only his Horus name is related to repeating of births but the first 3 names are! And this relates only to his names changed during the later part of his reign. If we take the time to check into Amenemhat's reign we perhaps find a reason other than reicarnation for this.
http://www.ancient-egypt.org/kings/1201 ... story.html
Amenemhat's policy was one to re-enforce royal authority throughout the country. In order to reestablish royal authority, Amenemhat also had a firm interior policy, which was aimed at breaking the power of the local rulers who, since the 1st Intermediate Period, had ruled of their own territories with seemingly absolute power.

I suggest Bel, that what is being repeated it not the many reicarnations of Amenemhat I but of the correct divine order that has been missing in Egypt since the down fall of the Old Kingdom. After all it is his dynasty that resumed the stability of Egypt after the collapse of the Old Kingdom a worthy meaning to "repeater of births".

As for his son... "Senusert I's name was 'He whose births live.'" a son carrying on his father's work is historically and universally recongize as one of humanities most cherished dreams. So i again see little or no accounting for reincarnation in his Horus name.

Which brings to me some more questions. Perhaps you can assist me in better understanding your position that "the principle of reincarnation is another of ancient Egypt's great mystic gifts to the world". Why is the earliest misuse of ancient Egyptian names in support of reincarnation in AE datable to the 12th Dynasty? Egypt by this time is almost 2,500 years old! IF we start as most archaeologists do with the Badarian Period ca 4,500 BCE.

Why is it that there are no scholarly books on Egyptian reicarnation in Religion? While there are multiple books on Egyptian religions i can't find any that gives credence to an Egyptian belief in reincarnation.

"In the Egyptian Book of the Dead we read, "I am the Benu, the soul of Ra, and the guide of the gods in the Tuat (underworld). Their divine souls come forth upon the earth to do the will of their kas, let therefore the soul of Osiris Ani come forth to do the will of his ka. ... "
Since when are divine souls and spiritual Ka's endowed with a body reborn on earth?


"Homage to thee Osiris, O Governor of those who are in Amenti (heaven) who maketh mortals to be born again, who renewest thy youth.... "
Why is this proof of reincarnation of the body on earth, when Osiris was the god of the Underworld? And all Egyptians hoped for an afterlife in his company in the underworld of heaven.

"Nebensi, the lord of reverence, saith: 'I am Yesterday, Today, and Tomorrow, (and I have) the power to be born a second time."
Who is Nebensi? Outside of your quote and the RC+ C i can find no reference to Nebensi on Google, AOL's search engine, or even Netscape! Where can i find this Nebensi independently of your source?

"Osiris in his character as a great being among men asks, "How long... have I to live? (answer) It is decreed that thou shalt live for millions and millions of years. (Osiris) May it be granted unto me that I pass on unto the holy princes, for indeed, I am doing away with all the wrong which I did, from the time when this earth came into being." "
From where does this come? The book of the Dead? The RC+C? And why does this support the belief that the ancient Egyptians believed in reicarnation?

"In Manfred Lurker's "The Gods and Symbols of Ancient Egypt" we find another quote from the Book of the Dead, "Undergoing my repeated births I remain powerful and young."
Who is speaking the dead, the god, or the Pharaoh? Where is this in the Book of the Dead? What scroll, verse so i can go read it in context?

"Ralph M. Lewis, Past Rosicrucian Imperator, encouraged Rosicrucians to distinguish between those teachings used by some Egyptian Priesthood to instill fear and those teachings of the advanced Egyptian Mystery Schools to provide enlightenment. Mr. Lewis related, "There is no doubt that the conception of reincarnation had its inception in Egypt....6 "
First who is Mr. Lewis, what is the Rosicrucians, and what is the Imperator? And what proof does he have that reincarnation began in Egypt?
Where are the temples of reincarnation? Why don't Egyptian archaeologists such as Dr. Redford, Dr. Wilkinson, Dr. Grimal, Dr. Robins, Dr Baines, Dr. Malek, Dr. Hawass, Dr. Kitchen talk about this important, (AND IT IS AN IMPORTANT) religious belief? If, this belief of reicarnation was in Egypt, why did the Egyptians make tombs to store their needs for an afterlife? Why did they even plan an afterlife if they were coming back to earth? Why did they preserve their bodies for their after life if they were coming back in a reincarnated form? Why do we have remains of letters written to the dead by their living relations for help in life, if the dead weren't dead, but reincarnated?

While your source might be entirely satisfactory to you and others, i am sorry it is far from being so for me. Hopefully my reasons for that dissatisfaction is evident enough that i am spared accusations based more on sour grapes than reality. If you, can provide more satisfactory proof, i will be happy to consider it. After all i am here to learn more of Ancient Egypt, like the rest of us.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2004 2:56 pm 
Pharaoh
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The belief in reincarnation is not justified, in my opinion, by the evidence left be the ancient Egyptians themselves. Why mummify bodies, if the dead person is to be re-born and live another life?
I wish I had access to my books--I am moving, and they are all packed--but I remember reading a work, I think it was by Beverly Mertz, in which she said that all she needed to belief in reincarnation being practised in Egypt was to read one papyrus or inscription that spoke of the belief. She had been a practising Egyptologist for 20 years at that time, and had never seen such an insciption. I have to agree.
Sekhmet--a well-studied, concise arguement--well done!


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2004 3:50 pm 
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Wait, Did the Egyptians even believe in reincarnation? I have never read anything about AE that said they believed in that.


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