Ancient Egyptian Forum • View topic

Hatshepsut76 · **Posted:** Fri Dec 02, 2005 12:16 pm

Chiara, good research!!! I didn't know that the accent on the name was different! :wink:

Kiya · Joined:Wed Sep 25, 2002 1:08 am Posts:442 Location: Derby

Originally posted by queen Citlali

Quote:

I'm wondering, do any of you know what the name "Cleopatra" means?

I read that the name means 'Her father's Glory'.

Kiya · Joined:Wed Sep 25, 2002 1:08 am Posts:442 Location: Derby

Always new what the name meant but it was good to have it broken down. Nods to Psusennes I:-)

cleopatraservant · Joined:Thu Feb 22, 2007 6:19 pm Posts:2

Psusennes I wrote:

Cleopatra's name is a transcription of a Macedonian Greek name. I have the advantage of studying both Greek and Egyptian, and can guess instantly what the first part of her name means. It is from the Greek word 'kleos,' meaning 'fame.'

To the Ancient Greeks 'kleos' was the ultimate goal of the true hero; they sought to be known by all for having defeated invincible warriors, slept with Gods and in general for being the greatest man/woman ever to have lived. 'Kleos' is fame, honour and glory. It was not always obtained in using just means however, there was usually an element of killing and adultery involved! Odysseus is of particular not here because he didn't seek 'kleos' through the above methods, but rather through his 'many wiles.' But that's another story.

Anyway. That gives us the first part of KLEO-patra's name. The second part is from the epithet 'patroklos,' meaning 'the one who has attained the fame of their predecessors', literally, their 'father-fame.' So Cleopatra is a hybrid of two phrases meaning 'fame/honour/glory' and 'the one having the fame/honour/glory of their predecessors.' That completes her Greek name. I'd be happy to deal with her Egyptian epithets later, if you so wish. 'Cleopatra' was only a short segment of her grand titulary of royal names, the rest of which are in the old royal language of Egyptian.

It doesn't really have as sensical a meaning as some of the Egyptian names do, but I hope my explanation answers your question.

Greetings

I am Alan, servant to present day Cleopatra Of The Nile model and entertanment goddess

I am creating a tablet for a business and would like to know

1. if in the inscriptions and walls of temples is the name starting with a K but in most references everyone spells it with a C ?

I found a photograph in Dendera on the wall with the cartouche that had Cleopatra on it and the cartouche on the wall created by an egyptian or egyptian workers is not like others you may find and when I went to read it with the translator the cartouche on the wall spelled nothing of Kleopatra backwards or the other way
The letters are mixed up and some are left out

I've watched the carl Sagan video

Then you have Cleopatra portrayed on greek coins not looking like an egyptian goddess
But on the walls in Egypt you got her as an egyptian goddess and known as the last egyptian pharoah

So which ones are the true Cleopatra that conquered?
Is it a twisting of someones character?
Was Champollion wrong?

Psusennes I · Joined:Thu Sep 09, 2004 9:00 am Posts:912 Location: England

It's traditional to anglicise the greek Kappa (letter K) to C in English. Thus we have 'c's in Heracles, the Acropolis and most other greek words that originally had Ks.

I don't understand the other question.

cleopatraservant · Joined:Thu Feb 22, 2007 6:19 pm Posts:2

the question is which is the true ruler and pharoah of Egypt?

Was she the grecian or the Egyptian?

And are you saying that perhaps the Greeks or Romans made the inscription instead of the Egyptians when making the cartouche and painting??

Osiris II · **Posted:** Sat Feb 24, 2007 8:16 am

Was she the grecian or the Egyptian?
Neither--she was Macadonian, Child of Ptolemy.

And are you saying that perhaps the Greeks or Romans made the inscription instead of the Egyptians when making the cartouche and painting??
I assume you are talking about the Rosetta Stone. It was the creation of an Egyptian scribe (probably), inscribed on a stone by an Egyptian (probably again) worker, using three languages. Hieroglyph, Demotic (a form of ancient Egyptian) and Greek. (the official language of the Egyptian rulers) I know of no painting associated with the Rosetta Stone.

the question is which is the true ruler and pharoah of Egypt?
Cleopatra VII and her brother: Cleopatra alone: also her son with Caesar was eligible to become Pharaoh.

Kiya · Joined:Wed Sep 25, 2002 1:08 am Posts:442 Location: Derby

I've heard both Greek, Macedonian and Macedonian-Greek to refer to the Ptolemies. By the standards of today she would be Egyptian as that was where she was born. She would have been Egyptian of Macedonian-greek decent. Just as i'm British of British-Jamican decent.
Of course that was not how they viewed things back that. Your bloodline was more important so I don't think there are any people who refer to Cleopatra as Egyptian.

Kiya · Joined:Wed Sep 25, 2002 1:08 am Posts:442 Location: Derby

Having had another think about it, we don't know for certain who Cleopatra's mother was. Some believe she was Ptolemy's sister wife which would make her fully Greek/Macedonian but others have stated that her mother was in fact an Alexandrian concubine, which would make her half Egyptian after all.

anhk-of-life · **Posted:** Tue Jun 19, 2007 4:12 am

i think cleopatra means "Father pride." :roll:

Kiya · Joined:Wed Sep 25, 2002 1:08 am Posts:442 Location: Derby

yes it means 'Her Father's Glory' which is pretty much the same thing. Her other names were 'Thea Philopator' which mean 'the Father-Loving Godess'.

anhk-of-life · **Posted:** Wed Jun 20, 2007 3:55 am

oh, yeah. right.where's my brain? :oops:

Cleopatra_Isis · **Posted:** Mon Jul 09, 2007 6:37 pm

Cleopatra VII's father, Ptolemy XII Neos Dionysos (Auletes), had her two sisters killed, both had abdicated (stole) the throne from him while he was making deals with the Romans. Cleopatra V Tryphaena stole the throne and after Auletes's supporters had Tryphaena killed, Berenice IV Epiphaneia took over thinking her father was dead, since that is what Tryphaena 'said'. So upon Auletes's arrival (possibly Cleopatra's too, it depends what you read) Berenice tried to give up the throne but he had her beheaded.

The whole point is, she probably added Philapator to get on his good side. It is also said that she was her father's favorite child and was the closest to him.

The Ptolemy dynasty is related to Alexander the Great by Ptolemy I Soter. From what I've read they were cousins of some sorts. That's the stroy I've read and have been told.

They don't really know what Cleopatra looked like since her mother's heritage is unknown. She may have been fair skinned and haired with blue or green eyes or dark skinned and haired with brown eyes...or a mixture.

Experts aren't really sure what is truth and what is fiction, since Octavian (Augustus Caesar) had her name trashed, which only made her more exotic and made her fame grow.

Hope that helped

tnrees · **Posted:** Tue Jul 10, 2007 4:52 am

If her mother was an Alexandrian concubine it still does not make her ethnically Egyptian as there were a lot of races in in Alexandria & I would imagine Alexandria was a good place to come to if you wanted to get rich by sleeping with rich men.

Kiya · Joined:Wed Sep 25, 2002 1:08 am Posts:442 Location: Derby

Originally psted by Cleopatra_Isis

Quote:

Cleopatra V Tryphaena stole the throne and after Auletes's supporters had Tryphaena killed

Cleopatra V Tryphaena was actually the sister-wife of Auletes. I think your refering to the supposed older sister of Cleoptara-Berence, the so-called Cleopatra VI. It is now believed that this sister did in fact not exists and it was a mistake with the numbering of the many Cleopatra's and that she was in fact synonimous with her sister Cleopatra-Berenice who, as we know, did rebel.