Ancient Egyptian Forum

[Si-amun]

In 1964 in the necropolis of Saqqara an archaeologist discovered a tomb depicting scenes of two manicurists ( Niankhkhnum and Khnumhotep ) in intimate embrace. They had both been employed in the Palace of King Niuserre (Fifth Dynasty) around 2,400BC. The images of the two men in the tomb were very similar to those of male-female married couples found in other tombs dating from the same period.
What do you all think about this? I have read how common homosexuality was in ancient Greece but I never knew it was widely accepted in Egypt. In fact, from the Legend where Horus raped by Seth I thought it was percieved to be humiliating. In the negative confession of the Book of the Dead the deceased denies practicing homosexuality. Does anyone else know the actual stance of the Ancient Egyptians on the matter?
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Thou dost appear beautiful on the horizon of heaven, oh living Amun, he who was the first to live.

[Google]

[Sekhmet]

[Si-amun]

Thanks, but there must have been some kind of general acceptance for there to have been a couple displayed in stone on a tomb wall. Can anyone else think of any other examples?
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Thou dost appear beautiful on the horizon of heaven, oh living Amun, he who was the first to live.

[Ibelieveyouhavemystapler?]

Ancient Greece.

[Si-amun]

We have discussed Ancient Greece and the whole symposium scene before. I meant solely in ancient Egypt as the Greeks didn't really do much to hide their stance on homosexuality, did they?
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Thou dost appear beautiful on the horizon of heaven, oh living Amun, he who was the first to live.

[Sekhmet]

[Osiris II]

Check out the tomb Si-Amon is talking about here, and let's hear what everyone thinks.

www.egyptology.com/niankhkhnum_khnumhotep/ (underline between niankhkhnum and khnumhotep)

I uderstand the tomb is now closed to the public. It is considered to be in "poor taste". (SCA quote)

[Si-amun]

Until the mid 1960's it was illegal to be homosexual in the UK. That means no relationship, no depiction of gay relationships or anything were allowed. Now we are more accepting there is a heightened gay culture emerging over here. If it was condemned or severely frowned upon could the couple have had it carved onto their tomb wall? Could they have chosen a blasphemous image of the gods if they had wanted it? I think not. To carve something in stone in a Royal necropolis is to show both worlds what it is that you do. That is why Horemheb modified the paintings in his tomb at Saqqara to depict him as King. This tomb was never used but it was still important for him to be who he was, in stone, in a sacred place.
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Thou dost appear beautiful on the horizon of heaven, oh living Amun, he who was the first to live.

[Sekhmet]

Like i said Si-Amun as far as i know it was not approved of, however i don't know of any laws against it. Not approved of, is not the same thing as being illegal.
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[img]http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:ygpdGun0X_wJ:www.temoata.org/temoata/lotus.jpg[/img]
how beautiful the lotus flower is! selected 4-4-04

[Si-amun]

Osiris II, thankyou for that excellent link. I found it immensely interesting to see the actual carvings instead of merely hearing about them. I wonder what the Egyptians thought about it all? Were they modern in their approach? Were they barbaric about it? Interesting as it is, for me at least, a human interest story dating back 4500 years.
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Thou dost appear beautiful on the horizon of heaven, oh living Amun, he who was the first to live.

[Sekhmet]

Thanks again Osiris II ! This time your link worked!
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[img]http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:ygpdGun0X_wJ:www.temoata.org/temoata/lotus.jpg[/img]
how beautiful the lotus flower is! selected 4-4-04

[Osiris II]

[quote="Sekhmet"]Thanks again Osiris II ! This time your link worked!

How about that! Success!

The AE have never stated pros or cons concerning homosexuality. I'm sure, as in ANY society, homosexuals did exist. A general acceptance in AE? Who knows--but it is quite unlikely. As you stated in one of your posts, a private tomb was just that--private. What people felt necessary to carve on the walls of their tomb ultimately concerned themselves. Obviouly, these two men wanted to share their happy life together for eternity. I think that is a very noble desire, and should be commended.

[Guest]

I just found this, using Google, and thought the rest of you may find it interesting.

Homosexuality itself is not technically illegal in Egypt but it is a serious taboo - culturally, socially and now politically. Gay men are vilified by the press and the public.


Dr. Essam Elarian, a spokesman for the banned Muslim Brotherhood, expresses a common opinion. "From my religious view, all the religious people, in Christianity, in Judaism, condemn homosexuality," he says. "It is against the whole sense in Egypt. The temper in Egypt is against homosexuality."

Until last year, the government denied that homosexuality even existed. No one knows why it changed policy and decided to begin its crackdown.

[Si-amun]

I am very sorry, but we were talking about Ancient Egypt and not modern Egypt. Interesting facts though. I know a private tomb was "private" but surely to put something like that, in stone, in a Royal necropolis, and in a public chapel open to any family. What was painted on the walls of a tomb was what they wanted their afterlife to be. Would you show the gods something they would find unacceptable or offensive?
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Thou dost appear beautiful on the horizon of heaven, oh living Amun, he who was the first to live.

[PharoahKel]