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Who was Tutankhamon´s father ?
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Lady Neferankh
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 8:53 pm    Post subject: Who was Tutankhamon´s father ? Reply with quote

In your opinion what pharaoh was Tutankhamon´s father my first choice has always been Akhenaten and I have always thought it seemed probable that Kiya was his mother.
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Sekhmet
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 9:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Who was Tutankhamon´s father ? Reply with quote

Lady Neferankh wrote:
In your opinion what pharaoh was Tutankhamon´s father my first choice has always been Akhenaten and I have always thought it seemed probable that Kiya was his mother.


Outside a few Egyptianologists after discovering Kiya peg her to be his mother there is no substancial proof that she gave birth to any child other than a daughter. Let us look at the problem from this point it is generally accepted that the body of tomb KV55 is a very close relative of Tutankhamen and normally considered to be Smenkhkara. Then compare the dates of Kiya's association with her husband, it becomes clear that she could not be the mother of Smenkhkara, and Tutankhamun as well! There are no mentions of her in Tutankhamun's tomb. Her artwork was removed by succeeding royal women, the wives of Smenkhkara, and Tutankhamun which also tends to discount Kiya as the young men's mother.

i maintain that Nefertifi and her husband Akhenaten were both boys parents. On this basis Nefertiti a non-royal woman achieves the position of Great Royal Wife, a position that normally fell to the mother of the future King. Queen Tiy, Queen Nefertari, Queen Isetnofret are fine examples of this... A non-scholarly comparison of Nefertiti's busts, and the mask of Tutankhamun show similar facial characteristics such as the long pithum ( the area between the nose and upper lip), high cheekbones, and long neck.
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PharoahKel
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How do we know she gave birth to Smenkhare?
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Sekhmet
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2004 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PharoahKel wrote:
How do we know she gave birth to Smenkhare?


Hi PharaohKel,
There are no surviving sources that credit any woman with being either Smenkhkara's or Tutankhamun's mother. It is believed because of the examination of the mummies of KV55, and Tutankhamun show they are very close relations either brothers or father and son.

Since the body in KV55 is generally considered to be Smenkhkara, and he is rarely considered to be Tutankhamun's father. Because of that exam that insists that they are close relations. He is considered to be Tutankhamun's brother. The actual preference of the exam states that it is likely that the relation is father and son. However since archaeologists uniformaly deny the possibility of the mummy being that of Akhenaten. The only close enough relation that would explain that "close" relation is that they had the same mother and father.
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Si-amun
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2004 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why is it only the six daughters who are ever depicted alongside the Royal couple Nefertiti and Akhenaten? Surely if a boy, or possibly two were born to Nefertiti they would be shown just as much, if not more. To my mind it does not make sense to depict the unimportant girls and neglect to show the two future kings. From the moment of his birth Smenkhare would have been destined for kingship so why neglect depicting him over six girls who would never gain very much prominence? Could they have been born to different women perhaps?
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Sekhmet
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2004 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Si-Amun wrote:
Why is it only the six daughters who are ever depicted alongside the Royal couple Nefertiti and Akhenaten? Surely if a boy, or possibly two were born to Nefertiti they would be shown just as much, if not more. To my mind it does not make sense to depict the unimportant girls and neglect to show the two future kings. From the moment of his birth Smenkhare would have been destined for kingship so why neglect depicting him over six girls who would never gain very much prominence? Could they have been born to different women perhaps?


Good question Si-Amun. Smenkhkara, and Tutankhamun could have been born to another wife, even another royal couple i.e., Amenhotep III and one of his many wives. This was the accepted belief until the block of stone that proclaimed Tutankhamun a King's Son and the discovery of Kiya.

Why would Pharaoh not include his important sons on a monument? Well, since Pharaoh was supposed to be Horus, having a couple of Horus' waiting wouldn't be all that understandable. The main thing is...

Why didn't Amenhotep III and Queen Tiy on their monuments show their sons?

They had two, Tuthmoses, and Akhenaten but there are no surviving monument of them with their parents. However, there are surviving monuments of Amenhotep III, Queen Tiy and their daughters. Sound familiar? Oh, and Akhenaten was their son! (Umm my thinking cap comes on here.)

In fact there are very few royal sons shown with their father's throughout Egypt's history. The only ones i can think of are Amenemhet I of the 12th dynasty with his son Senwosret I, and Seti I of the 19th dynasty with his son Ramesses II. Can you think of any others? Oh, yes Ramesses II with his sons.
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Ankhesenamun3
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2004 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But are not the sons ever metioned? MAybe not at a family scene , but are they ever talked about?
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Sekhmet
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2004 7:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ankhesenamun3 wrote:
But are not the sons ever metioned? MAybe not at a family scene , but are they ever talked about?


Hi Ankhesenamun3, as for Akhenaten be "talked" about by his parents. There are none surviviing such references until we see Akhenaten as Pharaoh. He makes it pretty clear that Tiy is his mother and her husband was his father.

As for Tuthmoses being "talked" about. i am aware of a couple of artifacts that once belonged to him that states his parents. There are a couple of inscriptions that date from his days as Crown Prince and High Priest of Ptah that appear to only aknowledge he was Crown Prince. But nothing during his younger years.
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Ramsekh
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What I've read is that Akhenaten and Tut were brothers and Amenhotep III was their father and Akhenaten killed Tut. And I've read crap about akhenaten being Tut's father and never found out who could have been his mother. All I know about Nefertiti and TUt is that they engaged in nooky.
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Osiris II
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 1:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Ramsekh"]What I've read is that Akhenaten and Tut were brothers and Amenhotep III was their father and Akhenaten killed Tut. And I've read crap about akhenaten being Tut's father and never found out who could have been his mother. All I know about Nefertiti and TUt is that they engaged in nooky.

Akhenaton could not possibly have killed Tut. Akhenaton was already dead and buried when Tut died. Same about Tut and Nefertiti having "nooky". She died, either before Tut was born or when he was a very young child--pre-"nooky". Where did you get that information? It's really way off base!
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Si-amun
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"crap about Akhenaten being his father?", oh dear. I think someone needs to do a bit of reading around. Akhenaten is one of the most likely candidates for being the father of Tutankhamun. I personally believe him to be the father, with Kiya or even a lesser, unaccounted for wife as the mother. I understand the theories of the long co-regency but I do not believe them so I rule out Amenhotep III as his father and as Smenkhare died quite young himself could he have had a nine year old son? I have never heard of Nefertiti and Tutankhamun having any sexual relationship at all! How interesting though, but it is probably a case of some author trying to sell a book by mentioning two famous Egyptians (c.r. Anne Rices' "The Mummy" with Ramses II being in love with Cleopatra)! Aaaaargh. Anyone, once Tutankhamun was through Puberty, shall we say at fifteen wouldn't Nefertiti (hypothetically of course) have been too old for children. Also, after at least 6 children herself wouldn't she have been passed her time for child rearing? Surely the ages would dispel this theory anyway. A woman in her fifties and a pre-pubescent King? I dont but it, even hypothetically.
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Sekhmet
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2004 1:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Si-amun wrote:
. I understand the theories of the long co-regency but I do not believe them .


Hey, Si-Amun i suggest you read The Amarna Age: Egypt by Frederick J. Giles he provides good, and substancial evidence for a long co-regency between Amenhotep III and Akhenaten.

There are five books in his series so be sure to get the one says Egypt Smile i got my copy from Amazon.com
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Si-amun
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2004 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sekhmet, I have read a lot on the co-regency but I still choose not to believe it I am afraid. Can we just leave me alone on this one please? It is just easier if we don't open this can of worms yet again.
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Lostris
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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2005 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my opinion, Tut's father was Akhenaten. Just look at his mummy and statues! They're the same.
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nileqt87
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 11:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the biggest identifying factor with the amarna period royalty is the elongated heads from MARFAN'S SYNDROME, a genetic disease that has a 50/50% chance of being passed on that causes all the deformities akhenaten is shown with (he seemed to get them all).

tutankhamen's skeletal structure shows him to have the elongated head--and it was not from being wrapped--it was genetic.

smenkhare also has the elongated head, and in fact, he looks a lot like akhenaten, just slightly less severe.

it was a big inbred marfan's party, is what happened.

and tutankhamen died from a wound to his leg--most likely a chariot fall. he wasn't murdered. the injuries to the rest of his mummy were made by hasty embalmers--who even dumped a vat of perfume on his stomach and that's why not much of his middle is left.

tutankhamen and ankhsunamen are generally considered brother/sisters who married.

the reason akhenaten gets left out of family portraits with the case of amenhotep III and queen tiy, is his deformities would probably have made him a black sheep of the family (and thus probably why he went into the middle of the desert and made his own drasticly different religion). note, how following pharaohs, including even tutankhamen tried to erase akhenaten's existance.

some tutankhamen paraphanalia, however, depicts the aten.



also, take a look at the belly. look familiar?
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