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A new take on Tut's parents?

 
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Osiris II
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2004 11:50 pm    Post subject: A new take on Tut's parents? Reply with quote

I've just been going through some older copies of KMT and trying to index them, and I've come across an article that is quite interesting. It's from the Fall 1997 issue. I've also found that the article is on line. It can be read at:
www.egyptology.com/kmt/fall97/endpaper.html

Basically, it says that Smenkhkara and Meritaten may have been Tutankhamen's parents. Far out as it seems at first glance, if the article is read, it gives a good arguement. Check it out, Sekhmet, and let me know what you think of the possiblities...
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Sekhmet
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2004 7:52 pm    Post subject: Re: A new take on Tut's parents? Reply with quote

Osiris II wrote:
I've just been going through some older copies of KMT and trying to index them, and I've come across an article that is quite interesting. It's from the Fall 1997 issue. I've also found that the article is on line. It can be read at:
www.egyptology.com/kmt/fall97/endpaper.html

Basically, it says that Smenkhkara and Meritaten may have been Tutankhamen's parents. Far out as it seems at first glance, if the article is read, it gives a good arguement. Check it out, Sekhmet, and let me know what you think of the possiblities...


Hi again Orsisi II it was an interesting read, and presents another possibility. At which, i can hear Dr. Giles comments on the fanciful statements made by those who should know better about the Amarna royals and time. I agree.

The fact is Nefertiti a non-royal woman takes the primary female position in Akhenaten's court. The only other such women are Queens Tiy, Nefertari, and Isetnofret both wives of Ramesses II. All these women gave their husbands their heir. All these women lived within approx. 100 years of Nefertiti showing a rather close relation in time to each other.

I find it extremely hard, to accept the old belief that Nefertiti achieved her exalted position because she accepted Akhenaten's religious reforms. We have both read Giles and his belief that Amenhotep III began the true reforms. If, this is accepted, and i do accept it. The old theory on why, Nefertiti achieved the exalted position is voided. We are left again, without why a non-royal woman with no sons, would achieve that position. Historically Egyptian Queens achieved their position by being the daughter/sister of the King. Tiy, Nefertari, and Isetnofret are the women that break the mold. They did it by giving Pharaoh his heir. Non-royal Nefertiti breaks the mold even further as far as everyone is concern. She can't even provide her husband with a heir! As for the lack of evidence of Nefertiti providing Akhenaten a male heir. I suggest that her mere presence as Queen is evidence that is hard to negate.

The lack of Akhenaten proclaiming a son... outside of Ammenemes I and Seti I, i am not overtly aware of other Pharaohs proclaiming their sons. It is normally the son proclaiming his father. (Ramesse II is another exception and this is due to the many sons that were Crown Princes only to die before their father did.) Amenhotep III and his non-royal wife made much todo about their daughters, as did Akhenaten and Nefertiti. There is no mention of the sons, Princes Thutmose or Amenhotep (Akhenaten) during the rule of their parents Amenhotep III and Tiy. This only scores again that Akhenaten did nothing different than his parents in todoing about his daughters. While leaving open the possibility that sons were provided by Nefertiti.

Since Nefertiti holds the female power position from the time of her first daughters' birth and it is never threatened despite 6 daughters. I see no reason not to accept that her first born child was Smenkhkara. The closeness of throne names also heightens, to me this possibility. Between the births of Ankhesenamun and the 4th daughter there is a gap of about 2 years pleanty of time for Tutankhamun to be born. Of course a stillbirth or neonate death might have occured but so to a males' birth could have.

The biggest support i can think of for Mr. Forbes theory of Smenkhkara and Meriaten as Tutankhamun's parents is the congential defects in the premature infants in Tutankhamun's tomb. However, if Tutankhamun was the son of Akhenaten and Nefertiti, as i believe. Those congential defects are the result of marrying his full sister not his aunt.

If you happen to have KMT A Modern Journal of Ancient Egypt, Volume 12, Number 2 Summer 2001 take a good look at the pithum of Nefertiti and then take some looks at Tutankhamun pithum, then the cheekbones not to mention the neck. To me, they are very close for two folks with no blood relationship.

Thanks for the post i appreciated it. Smile
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Ankhesenamun3
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2004 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very interesting!! But I believe Tutankhamun and Nefertiti were related ever if they were not mother and son. I have always thought Aye to be Nefertiti's father Aye had a sister Tiye who was married to Amenhotep III who had a son Amenhotep IV. Well if Akhenaten is Tutankhamuns father with Kiya Tut and Nefertiti would be related , I know that they may not be as close in apperance as a mother and her son but they may still have simalar features. I can not find my book that told me this but it showed on a family tree that Aye and Tiye were brother and sister the book was called Nefertiti the Sun Queen.
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Sekhmet
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2004 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ankhesenamun3 wrote:
Very interesting!! But I believe Tutankhamun and Nefertiti were related ever if they were not mother and son. I have always thought Aye to be Nefertiti's father Aye had a sister Tiye who was married to Amenhotep III who had a son Amenhotep IV. Well if Akhenaten is Tutankhamuns father with Kiya Tut and Nefertiti would be related , I know that they may not be as close in apperance as a mother and her son but they may still have simalar features. I can not find my book that told me this but it showed on a family tree that Aye and Tiye were brother and sister the book was called Nefertiti the Sun Queen.


Well argued Ankhesenamun3!
Yes, there is the supposed relationship of Tiye and Aye. What it is based upon is Aye's use of a title first noted by Yuya the father of Tiye. "The God's Father" along with a supposed similarity in their names Aye and Yuya. It is also believed that Aye comes from the same area as Tiye's parents this belief is from a stela he had placed in that area. Then there is the fact that Aye's wife is called the "Nurse of Nefertiti" and that Aye's daughter Mutnodjmet is called in some Amarna reliefs as Nefertiti's sister.

In the tomb of Tiye's parents both Tiye and her brother An are mention. An held an important priesthood under the reign of Amenhotep III. There is no mention of the supposed younger son Aye. Why? To reach a similar agreement between the names of Yuya and Aye one must do cutting and rearrange the letters. As the title of God's Father, since the meaning, role of such a title isn't understood there is no reason to mean it was an heritary title passed from father to son, as currently believed. Mostly to strenghten the identification of Aye as Yuya's son. In fact the strongest support for Aye being a brother of Tiye is in his stela in her parents hometown. But this can be explained as a near relation, the son of An? Or just an overeager to impress noble stroking his boss. As this area would also be the home area of Akhenaten's grandparents Aye might have made tribute on this account.

It is generally ceeded that Aye's wife wasn't Nefertiti's mother. If she was, why is she only titled as Nefertiti's nurse? That Mutnodjmet was Aye's daughter is most certainly a correct identification. In his Amarna tomb, Mutnodjmet picture is all over it. Nefertiti isn't mentioned even there to be his daughter. What about the identification of her as Nefertiti's sister. Aye's wife also a Tiy, is excluded as Nefertiti's mother on account of her title as nurse. Here is a possible reason for Mutnodjmet's status as sister to Nefertiti... children of nurses often had close relationships with those that nursed at their mother's breast. This is bore out in that Queen Satioh, first Queen of Thutmose III, was the daughter of his nurse.

Until there is firmer proof that Aye was Queen Tiye's brother, let alone Nefertiti's father... i am not a believer.

As for Nefertiti's looks showing in Tutankhamun due to a blood relation through Aye, and Tiye. There is none of Nefertiti's beauty or even Tutankhamuns fine looks noted in either the statues of Tiye nor the remains of her parents.
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