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A real Tomb???
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Tash
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Now they did it with an iron winch, you know, an iron cable and a winch that pulled the stone away from the quarry wall, and all their tools were iron."(quote from pbs site)

What were the ancient egyptian ropes actualy made out of? i would imagine strong fibers. expecialy if it was made to withstand 2.5 tonnes of pressure. and copper? it is easy to bend and manipulate. a copper winch does not stand a chance against 2.5 tonnes. it doesnt even stand a chance against a couple of Kilo's, without a winch you would have never even gotten the stone out of the hole. its like when i get the icecream out of the freezer and it is frozen so solid that it bends the spoon when i try to dig it out. and the spoon i am using is stainless steel. lucky we dont use copper spoons. i wouldnt be able to eat icecream Crying or Very sad

theres more to say but i hve to go for now.
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Sekhmet
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aww try either linen or hemp fiber for ropes.
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Osiris II
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

At the time of the building of the GP, the ancient Egyptians did not have the wheel--ruling out any type of winch. Tools used were copper only--no iron.
Sekhmet is correct in stating that ropes at that time were made either of linen or hemp--both remarkably strong, considering the fiber from which they were made.
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Sekhmet
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2004 2:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Osiris II wrote:
At the time of the building of the GP, the ancient Egyptians did not have the wheel--ruling out any type of winch. Tools used were copper only--no iron.
Sekhmet is correct in stating that ropes at that time were made either of linen or hemp--both remarkably strong, considering the fiber from which they were made.


Aww i am not so sure of that about no wheels. Wheels were in use in Mesopotamia by 3.000 BCE. Trade with Egypt was nearly of ancient status by the time of the Pyramids. So wheels may have been in use in some areas. As for iron, while the knowledge of iron making is generally much younger than the Pyramid times, use of iron from meritorites was in use for limited purposes at a very early age.
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Ankhesenamun3
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2004 3:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well , the Egyptians did have chariots , with wheels.

Last edited by Ankhesenamun3 on Sun Aug 08, 2004 5:05 am; edited 1 time in total
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Tash
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2004 4:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

not enough iron for what they would have needed to quarry stones,
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Sekhmet
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2004 5:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Tash, how much iron do you believe is needed to make a winch? Anyway here is a site and excerpt about ancient iron usage.


http://www.vanderkrogt.net/elements/elem/fe.html [

Although Iron occurs only sparingly in the free state, the abundance of ores from which it may be readily obtained led to its use in a very remote period. Iron has been known and used since prehistoric times. The writings of the most early civilizations refer to it, and there is evidence that it was known more than 7000 years ago; in China the usage of steel goes back to 2550 B.C. Some vedic poets wrote that their prehistoric ancestors already knew iron and were able to transform it into utensils through a considerable range of technics.


So the PBS site is probably right in suggesting iron as winches.
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Tash
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2004 6:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The amount of Iron needed for a winch would depend on the style, size of the winch and weight of the block. i would think not much iron would be lying around the Giza plateu. anyway if they had made iron winches. why not use iron tools? it is quite possible they traded, around 1000BCE there were batterys containing iron found in a tomb near Modern day baghdad.
http://www.unmuseum.org/bbattery.htm (just for a point of interest.)
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Tash
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2004 6:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

well, i also said 'not enough iron for what they would have needed to quarry the stones' because there was either no iron or little of it.
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Sekhmet
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2004 6:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tash wrote:
well, i also said 'not enough iron for what they would have needed to quarry the stones' because there was either no iron or little of it.


yeah, right Tash you were there so you know. RIght! Wink
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Tash
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2004 7:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

no, orisis II said,
Quote:
Tools used were copper only--no iron


so thereforeth coming my argument of no iron, and
you stating,

Quote:
use of iron from meritorites was in use for limited purposes at a very early age.


makes me beleive that there was little iron, if it was only used for limited purposes
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Osiris II
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2004 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is taken from the following website:

http://nefertiti.iwebland.com/trades/metals.htm

It's an interesting article, very discriptive of the metals used at all stages of Egyptian history. The following is just one statement taken from the site:

During the early stages of an age the use of the new metal was still infrequent, became widespread during the middle stage and common in the final period: The first iron weapons began to appear during the late New Kingdom, but the Egyptian Iron Age began in earnest only in the 7th or even the 6th century BCE when Greeks settlers at Naucratis introduced iron production.
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Tash
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

well there was still little iron.
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PharoahKel
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2004 2:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sekhmet wrote:
Tash wrote:
well, i also said 'not enough iron for what they would have needed to quarry the stones' because there was either no iron or little of it.


yeah, right Tash you were there so you know. RIght! Wink

No one was there. No one really knows.
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Si-amun
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2004 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very good point there actually. lol
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