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Who was the Pharaoh of the Exodus?
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tnrees
Prince/Princess


Joined: 09 Jul 2005
Posts: 497
Location: Taunton, UK

PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

About Pharohs giving daughters as brides - if you have a lot of wives/concubines you will probably have a lot of daughters to find something to do something with so I would guess there would be no problem with the daughter of a junior concubine marrying a foreign king.
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Osiris II
Pharaoh


Joined: 13 Mar 2004
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Location: Long Beach, CA

PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You might find this interesting:
Egyptian princesses and foreign royals
No Egyptian princess seems to have been given in marriage to a foreign ruler [11]. Maybe the Egyptians really believed that foreigners were not good enough or the princesses, more independent than their counterparts in other countries, would not agree to being pawns in the political chess game of the ancient Middle East?

How is it possible that, having written to you in order to ask for the hand of your daughter - oh my brother, you should have written me using such language, telling me that you will not give her to me as since earliest times no daughter of the king of Egypt has ever been given in marriage? Why are you telling me such things? You are the king. You may do as you wish. If you wanted to give me your daughter in marriage who could say you nay?
Letter from Kadashman Enlil II of Babylon

Ankhesenamen; Excerpt; Source: Cairo Museum website Ankhesenamen, widow of Tutankhamen, Queen Dakhamunzu to the Hittites [10], at any rate seems to have thought marriage to a foreign royal preferrable to a marriage with an Egyptian subordinate, or at least that is what she wants the Hittites to believe. In her letter to Suppiliuma, King of the Hittites, she relates:

My husband died. A son I have not. But to thee, they say, the sons are many. If thou wouldst give me one son of thine, he would become my husband. Never shall I pick out a servant of mine and make him my husband! ... I am afraid!"
From the Annals of Suppiluliuma as told by his son, Mursili II [9]

This may have been an attempt on Ankhesenamen's part to keep royal power to herself. A foreigner might have found it more difficult to reduce her influence than an Egyptian courtier would have.

Egyptians were as adept as anybody at finding reasons for changing ancient usages, if it suited their needs. On the whole they did not need to sacrifice their princesses. During the New Kingdom they were separated from any major enemy by a string of Canaanite client states, and even after these had escaped their tutelage during the decline of Egyptian power under the late 20th dynasty, there were always the deserts crossable only by a very determined army commander.

I think one of the main reasons for not giving princesses as brides was the idea of the Egyptians that any claim to the throne by princes from another country was to be frowned upon.
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bel
Pharaoh


Joined: 25 May 2003
Posts: 501

PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 12:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We are forgetting about King Soloman and the Queen of Sheba.
And aren't we also forgetting about Hatshepsut.
They were ruler's and could do as they pleased.
[url=http://webk.ask.com/redir?bpg=http%3a%2f%2fweb.ask.com%2fweb%3fq%3d%2bIpuwer%26o%3d0%26page%3d1&q=+Ipuwer&u=http%3a%2f%2ftm.wc.ask.com%2fr%3ft%3dan%26s%3da%26uid%3d240b904b940b904b9%26sid%3d1892E4378A09E5804%26qid%3dE4ABEF99C93D0547ABE0B43261814D8C%26io%3d4%26sv%3dza5cb0de8%26o%3d0%26ask%3d%2bIpuwer%26uip%3d40b904b9%26en%3dte%26eo%3d-100%26pt%3dIsrael's%2bExperience%2bin%2bAncient%2bEgypt%26ac%3d24%26qs%3d1%26pg%3d1%26ep%3d1%26te_par%3d102%26te_id%3d%26u%3dhttp%3a%2f%2fwww.specialtyinterests.net%2fipuwer.html&s=a&bu=http%3a%2f%2fwww.specialtyinterests.net%2fipuwer.html&qte=0&o=0]link[/url]
Sorry that's so long, but has been a favorite of mine for along time now.
Thought I would soulfully share it with the forum.

Edited by DM28 for easier viewing.
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JOY!
Scribe


Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Posts: 55

PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's now away that Akhenaten was Moses. For one think Moses was said to live to be 120 years old! Akhenaten probably died in his 40's! I do wonder if maybe Akhenaten got his idea for the "aten" through some inspiration on Moses' part?
I've always thought the EXODUS happened before Rameses II remember there was a 40
year spand, between when Moses left for Midian and came back to Egypt.
Consideringthe short life expectancy, there could have have been a whole load of pharaohs between
that time. The one who was during the 10 plagues, is probably a relatively unknown
pharaoh. I could see the people in Ancient Egypt, being quit upset with the distruction
that he brought down on his country, so he was probably written off as a heredic. Since
from the bible we know he drowned, there'd be no evidence of the body (unless they still
decided to take it out and mummify it).

By the way why do the always link the EXODUS pharaoh (during the 10 plagues) as being
Rameses II? what proof shows it was him? I mean he lived so long, that I would think he'd
be the least likely candidate for being the pharaoh during that time?

bel I have also heard of King Solomon and Queen of Sheba. Though wouldn't she just be
called the pharaoh of Egypt? since that was who she was. King Solomon's reign
I've always thought was long after the death of Hatshepsut, he probably reigned
after the 20th dynasty.

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Scribe


Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Posts: 55

PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 3:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I recently have read up on the Mereptah stela, which mentions the Isralites. Still, though I would assume the Exodus happened way before Rameses II, maybe in the 17th dynasty? as far as Solomon goes, some speculate he lived (and ruled) during the reign of Pharaoh Siamun.
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BelovedofWa'Enre
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Joined: 07 Oct 2006
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Location: Akhetaten

PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One Egyptologist....(cannot remember his name) was excavating a tomb in the Valley that they had thought was just...there. Turns out it was where Ramses buried his sons. The Egyptologist was/is now looking for remains of Amunkhepershef (Ramses' oldest son) to see what his cause of death was. He says that the oldest's remains will prove whether Ramses was the Pharaoh of the Exodus or not.

As for that stelae you mentioned, all the books I have read said that that was the only mention of the Isrealites in Egypt....I, personally, believe Ramses was the Pharaoh of the Exodus...(Then again, I think Akhenaten could have been Moses...lol) Again, I have reasons...But they would take up far too much room to explain....Very Happy Ignore me if you wish....Very Happy
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Osiris II
Pharaoh


Joined: 13 Mar 2004
Posts: 914
Location: Long Beach, CA

PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kent Weeks is the Egyptologist working on KV5--the tomb of Rameses II's sons.
But beling able to find the burial of RII's first-born son is quite unlikely--no actual burial has been found intact in the tomb. He has found a skull in one of the passages that has been attributed to that time period, but it shows a large hole in the craniun.
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the_tutness_is_here
Pharaoh


Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 574
Location: The palace of Tutness!

PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

O_o;

Whoa...did this start up again...?

It's like, a year old or something...XD

And to Beloved of Wa'Enre, would you be interested in a propostion in which you could play as Akhenaten?
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BelovedofWa'Enre
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Location: Akhetaten

PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I started it, Tutness...I got tired of....not doing anything but reading when I was on the site because all the threads are old.....Razz So, I decided to put my two cents in....Very Happy

I cannot believe I forgot his name. I heard about the remains, but I did not hear about their condition. Only ONE skull....? There has to be more in there....That tomb is HUGE. As for Amunkhepershef....I saw it on a show Weeks did about the tomb, or read it in his book that he wrote about the discovery. One of the two.

ME play as Akhenaten?????? ME???? :O *weeps* I would be HONORED. No matter what the part is in or what I must do. *sniffs* Thanketh thou for offering me a part in thy creation....*bows humbly*
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Osiris II
Pharaoh


Joined: 13 Mar 2004
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Location: Long Beach, CA

PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I spoke of one skull, I was talking of the skull they have dated to Ramses' II's time. Other, what they consider to be skeletal remains washed into the tomb were also found.
A partial list of items found can be seen here:
http://www.thebanmappingproject.com/articles/article_12.3.html
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BelovedofWa'Enre
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 1:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I remember Weeks speaking of that....(All the stuff that was washed into the tomb...) I got you, man. Thanks for the site too. I bookmarked it. I'm going to check in ocassionally and see if they have updated their findings. I want to know more about that tomb....There has to be something in it....And if there really isn't...Well, the tomb itself is monumental. The largest in the valley....What it was built for....I hope to atleast glimpse the outside of it one day.....
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the_tutness_is_here
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Location: The palace of Tutness!

PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 4:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BelovedofWa'Enre wrote:
I started it, Tutness...I got tired of....not doing anything but reading when I was on the site because all the threads are old.....Razz So, I decided to put my two cents in....Very Happy

I cannot believe I forgot his name. I heard about the remains, but I did not hear about their condition. Only ONE skull....? There has to be more in there....That tomb is HUGE. As for Amunkhepershef....I saw it on a show Weeks did about the tomb, or read it in his book that he wrote about the discovery. One of the two.

ME play as Akhenaten?????? ME???? :O *weeps* I would be HONORED. No matter what the part is in or what I must do. *sniffs* Thanketh thou for offering me a part in thy creation....*bows humbly*


Well, me being the Tutness, what good is he without daddy around? XD And no need for ceremony, you seem like a good candidate to roleplay him. I suggest you get yahoo instant messenger and IM me soon, we need an interview. ^_~
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BelovedofWa'Enre
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Joined: 07 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do have IM.....Did you not getted my message...? O_o;
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the_tutness_is_here
Pharaoh


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Location: The palace of Tutness!

PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BelovedofWa'Enre wrote:
I do have IM.....Did you not getted my message...? O_o;


Depends on which one you messeged...XD Lemme know when you're on, and I'll get under my tut one...if not I'll be under the other one, I messeged you both screen names on here. In PM. ^_^;
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BelovedofWa'Enre
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Joined: 07 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

.....Um....Every day usually, unless I went to hang out with my anime group..Very Happy And to play some Smash..Very Happy As for time....I think I am in the Pacific Standard Time....Either that or our times are the same...(I moved to another state it really is not my fault....Razz) So right about now it is....4:46 pm here....I will be on the rest of the night most def..As for other times during the week...Normally as soon as I get back from class....So I guess sometime before five....? My schedule is crap so I really...cannot be more specific than that....XD *thumbs up*
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