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2/3 Fraction

 
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Neb-Ma'at-Re
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Joined: 09 Dec 2003
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2004 5:21 pm    Post subject: 2/3 Fraction Reply with quote

The AE's used the hieroglyph [D22] from Gardiner's sign list to rpresent the 2/3 fraction. Does anyone know the phonetic value of [D22], which seems to be a modification of [d21] which has a phonetic value of 'r'?


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Neb-Ma'at-Re
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Joined: 09 Dec 2003
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2004 6:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is what I have found (for easier identification of signs, all [bracketed] text refers to Gardiner's sign list).

In Budge's Egyptian Hieroglyph Dictionary List of Characters on pg. cxxxi section XVI he lists the sign in question as #17[D22]. Although he gives a signification as a determinitive or ideograph as 'fractional number 2/3, he gives no phonetic value.

Sign #16 on the same page shows the 's' sign [S29] overlapping the 'r' sign [D21] (similarly to the way that 's'[S29] overlaps 'f'[I9] in the sign [S30]).He gives a phonetic value for this sign of 'ser'. In analyzing signs #16 and #17[D22] it appeared to me that #17 is basically the same as #16 with the upper portion of the 's' sign [S29] trimmed off at the bottom radius of the 'r' sign [D21], leaving two legs, one longer than the other (the longer leg possibly representing 2/3 and the shorter 1/3 for a total of 1?). The difference in lengths of the legs is not seen in Gardiner's [D22] and may have been lost in copying the signs, but it can be seen in [D23].

On page 415a Budge's shows the word 'er' for [D21] and gives a translation of:'a prefix used to mark fractions'. He then gives examples of 1/3, 2/3, 1/5, 1/10, 1/15, 1/20, 1/30, 1/80, 1/100, 1/360. Interestingly he shows the fraction for 2/3 represented by the 'r' sign [D21] above the 's' sign [S29]!!! This would would be transliterated as 'eres' or 'res'.

This brought me back to sign #16 on pg cxxxi section XVI in which he gives a phonetic value of 'ser'. I searched for the words that included 'ser' showing the overlapping 's' and 'r' signs and found nothing!!!!! It appears that I may have found another one of Budge's mistakes and that perhaps sign #16 is but another version of 2/3 or #17[D22]and actually has a phonetic value of 'eres' or 'res' and not 'ser'.

In conclusion, I would say that the sign for 2/3, #17[D22], has a phonetic value of 'eres' or 'res'.

Can anyone confirm this? Your thoughts will be much appreciated.
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PharoahKel
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Joined: 25 Aug 2003
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 1:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What is the phonetic value of D23? Does it have one? This isn't a random question, it might help out Very Happy
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Osiris II
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PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2004 8:58 pm    Post subject: 2/3 Reply with quote

There is no phonetic symbol for the fraction 2/3. It was not written in any way. To show the fraction
2/3, 1/2 and 1/3 were used.
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Osiris II
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PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2004 8:59 pm    Post subject: 2/3 Reply with quote

There is no phonetic symbol for the fraction 2/3. It was not written in any way. To show the fraction
2/3, 1/2 and 1/3 were used. Rolling Eyes
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zampeada
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Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2004 2:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

how to use these symbols?
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Neb-Ma'at-Re
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Joined: 09 Dec 2003
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PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2004 4:43 pm    Post subject: Re: 2/3 Reply with quote

Osiris II wrote:
There is no phonetic symbol for the fraction 2/3. It was not written in any way. To show the fraction
2/3, 1/2 and 1/3 were used. Rolling Eyes


I will have to disagree with you Osiris II. First of all, 1/2 + 1/3 = 5/6 not 2/3. Secondly, there are numerous sources and references that claim the AEs had a glyph specifically for the 2/3 fraction () .


http://www.jimloy.com/egypt/fraction.htm
http://www.kevingong.com/Math/EgyptianFractions.pdf (pg.4)
http://www.math.buffalo.edu/mad/Ancient-Africa/mad_egyptian-fractions.html
http://aleph0.clarku.edu/~djoyce/ma105/2byn.html

and finally,
http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/numbers.htm which offers a phonetic value of the 2/3 fractions a 'rwy'.
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PharoahKel
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2004 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grazie!
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