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What do u call a female pharroh????
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Dark_Meryetamun_28
Gods/Goddesses


Joined: 22 Nov 2002
Posts: 1265
Location: In the throne of Nephthys

PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2003 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool! And, how do you change your MSN name to a phrase? I never got how to do that...
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2003 9:35 pm    Post subject: Advertisement

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Kiya
Prince/Princess


Joined: 25 Sep 2002
Posts: 442
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2003 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course Hatshepsut was not the only female pharaoh. If we are going to get picky about the title 'pharaoh' fine, lets use the term 'ruler' or 'king' even as Hatshepsut indeed did. Apart from Hatshepsut, we have Nitocris at the end of the 6th Dynasty, Sobeknefru at the end of the 12th and Twosret at the end of the 19th. Add to that women like Meriates and Khentkawes, both of whom appeared to have ruled as pharaoh, the lack of cooberating evidence the only thing stopping it being universally acknowledged.
The term 'Queen' as used in the Ptolemaic period may just have been how later historians described the women being that female rulers had become more common but we must understand that while the Ptoelmies ruled in the greek manner, all religious/temple inscriptions would have been in Ancient Egyptian, which didn't have a word for a ruling queen. The word 'queen' simply meant 'King's Wife' so it's highly unlikely that the Ptolemiac women who ruled as pharaoh would have used the title 'queen' being that it relegates their role to than of an appendage of their husbands.
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Psusennes I
Pharaoh


Joined: 09 Sep 2004
Posts: 913
Location: England

PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 5:50 pm    Post subject: Just to clarify. . . Reply with quote

The name Pharaoh certainly does come from the 'greekified' version of per-aa (per= house aa=great). The word for house is masculine, and so as a result there is no reason to change it. Per and aa were two seperate words in Egyptian.

Per-aa was used in the Old and Middle kingdoms to refer to the Pharaoh's estate, but in the New Kingdom it was used by the later Pharoahs as a sort of royal title.

Pharaohs in Hatshepsut's time called themselves 'nesw-bity' literally he of the sedge-wick and of the bee. This meant that the Pharaoh was the ruler of both upper and lower Egypt. So Hatshepsut would never have been referred to as Pharaoh (or per-aa for that matter) whilst she was alive.

Also, the word Pharaoh in greek is Pharo' and is the same in both masculine and feminine forms. So Pharaoh can be masculine or feminine, if you trace it back to Greek or Hieroglyphs
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bel
Pharaoh


Joined: 25 May 2003
Posts: 501

PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2004 1:14 am    Post subject: fish bait Reply with quote

waiting for the bass to strike .. so here it is,

"Then what about Sheba?"

For it is said that by calling herself Pharoah as being deemd, "God as annointed," to rule by her father's side. All treat all people as his people and lay Glory unto him. What was up with all the land's to Punt and myrrh tree's used for holy sanction? Do you not think that it was Hatshepsut's intrinsical place in the scheme of thing's? For she took as her oath that she shall inherit the kingdom of Egypt and it's people and all that entail's. Hatshepsut took on as an attribute, consideration for her God's, and their likeness, in his people, and upon his land and she was annointed in sanctuary deeming her Ruler by his side. This was law - Maat - Truth
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Osiris II
Pharaoh


Joined: 13 Mar 2004
Posts: 914
Location: Long Beach, CA

PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Although I agree with you, Kiya, that there have been several rulers who have lived in Ancient Egypt, to be "picky", the only female ruler who publically claimed to be Pharaoh was Hapshepsut, and even she tried to prove to the Egyptians that she was a male--even though she had a female body. She claimed that the god Amun came to her mother, deguised as her father, and impregenated her mother, thus becoming Hapshepsut's "real" father. Kinky! Embarassed
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Ramsekh
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Joined: 03 Aug 2004
Posts: 746

PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That would have made sense to say she was like Geb, a male with breasts XD
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Kiya
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Joined: 25 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2004 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Originally posted by Osiris II


Quote:
Although I agree with you, Kiya, that there have been several rulers who have lived in Ancient Egypt, to be "picky", the only female ruler who publically claimed to be Pharaoh was Hapshepsut, and even she tried to prove to the Egyptians that she was a male--even though she had a female body. She claimed that the god Amun came to her mother, deguised as her father, and impregenated her mother, thus becoming Hapshepsut's "real" father. Kinky!


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Kiya
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Joined: 25 Sep 2002
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Location: Derby

PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2004 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not conclusive but certainly Nitocris and Sobeknefru reigned.
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bel
Pharaoh


Joined: 25 May 2003
Posts: 501

PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2004 7:31 pm    Post subject: Publicly claimed Reply with quote

Osiris II wrote:
Although I agree with you, Kiya, that there have been several rulers who have lived in Ancient Egypt, to be "picky", the only female ruler who publically claimed to be Pharaoh was Hapshepsut, and even she tried to prove to the Egyptians that she was a male--even though she had a female body. She claimed that the god Amun came to her mother, deguised as her father, and impregenated her mother, thus becoming Hapshepsut's "real" father. Kinky! Embarassed


Do you mean to say that she was the only female Pharoah whom left monument's, temple's, obleisk's, etc. to the God's; self inscribed?
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Psusennes I
Pharaoh


Joined: 09 Sep 2004
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Location: England

PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2004 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No Bel. She was not the only female ruler to leave clues behind. I think what Osiris II means is that she was the only female pharaoh who argued that being a woman did not affect her role as a divine male god on earth.

Although she was not the only female pharoah, she was the only female ruler to publicly use the pronoun 'she' in her inscriptions. In her inscriptions she puts '-s' after every verb that she 'does' and uses the feminine ending '-t' on all of the adjectives that apply to her.
The other female Pharaohs (almost always) used 'he' to refer to themselves rather than 'she', as Hatshepsut did.

Whilst the other female pharoahs hid their femininity, Hatshepsut used it in a very masculine way.
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Osiris II
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Joined: 13 Mar 2004
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2004 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kiya, this is a quote from the first of the link you provided. It seems to prove my point--that although other women ruled Egypt, the only female ruler who took all attributed of a male pharoah was Hatshepsut.

Apart from Hatshepsut and Cleopatra, whose careers are described elsewhere in this web site, the record is too murky to produce a definitive list of women who reigned as pharaoh. There are some who probably ruled, but might not have, and there are some who probably did not, but might have.

Actually, her claiming to be the "son" of god and chosen to rule, being a male in a female's body, was more than likely the reason for her temples and inscriptions to be defaced. Tothmose III was more concerned with disproving any woman's claim of being Pharaoh--only a male could be pharaoh.
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Psusennes I
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Joined: 09 Sep 2004
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Location: England

PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2004 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The effacing of Hatshepsut during the reign of Tuthmosis the Third was originally atributed to his being angered by his cruel stepmother.
It however seems more likely, as Osiris II said, that Tuthmosis was more concerned with restoring 'maat', and thus he tried removed the radical Hatshepsut from history.
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Sekhmet
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Joined: 20 Feb 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2004 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is also interesting that nothing that describe Hatshepsut as King's daughter, King's Wife, or Queen Regent was ever defaced by Tuthmosis III.
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Si-amun
Pharaoh


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2004 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In a chapel at Karnak, begun by Hatchepsut and finished by Tuthmosis III he clearly shows both the coronation of himself AND of Hatchepsut in scenes above him. These blocks were recovered and reassembled not too long ago, and cast a lot of doubt over the theory that Tuthmosis acted in anger against his step-mother.
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Psusennes I
Pharaoh


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Location: England

PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2004 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the light of modern scholarship it appears that Tuthmosis was no opposed to co-ruling and infact he probably enjoyed the fact that he could focus on military campaigns and architechture whilst Hatshepsut focused on the economy and so on.
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