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The Nefertiti Show
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Ankhesenamun3
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Joined: 27 Aug 2003
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2003 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Or the nefertiti mummy could be smenhkhare. Very Happy
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Dark_Meryetamun_28
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2003 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's what I think:

"Nefertiti" mummy: Smenkhkare
KV55 mummy: Akhenaten

But, hey, I don't know everything
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Tadukhipa
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2003 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think it's a guy. Really Hawas didn't give any real evidence for that either. I'm still placing my bets on "Nefertiti Mummy" being Meritaten, "Elder Lady" being Tiye, "The Boy" being Thutmose (Akhenaten's brother) and KV55 being Smenkhkare.
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Kiya
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2003 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think KV55 was either Smenkare or Akhenaten's elder brother Thutmose, who died young, although the middle nody in KV35 is also speculated to be Thutmose.
While we know the body in KV 55 was closely related to Tut, all the shows and books I have seen/read take it further and say that it was a 'first-degree' relationship meaning either father and son or brother and brother. This means it must be either Smenkare if both Smenkare and Tut were sons of Akhenaten or Thutmose if Tut was a younger son of Amenhotep III as some have speculated.
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Meritaton
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kiya wrote:
it was a 'first-degree' relationship meaning either father and son or brother and brother.


Yes, they were both of the A2 MN blood type. While A type is common among Egyptians as far as I know, the MN type may not. There is also a detailed comparison of the 2 mummies, I'll post it as soon as I find it.
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Neith
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Joined: 12 Jun 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tadukhipa wrote:
I don't think it's a guy. Really Hawas didn't give any real evidence for that either.

Here's some of his thoughts:

...
"I'm sure that this mummy is not a female," Hawass told Reuters at his office in the Egyptian capital.

A report submitted to Egypt's SCA from the University of York expedition leader Don Brothwell said of the mummy: "There has been some confusion as to the sex of this individual."

However, the report concluded that the mummy was a female because of a lack of evidence of male genitalia.

Hawass said a double-piercing in the mummy's ear was common to both sexes, but in a different period to the Amarna era in which Nefertiti lived.

He said it was even more common in men.

"All the queens used to wear earrings in their wigs, not in their ears," Hawass said, who has worked in the field for 35 years.

He added that the male mummy found alongside the mummy said to be Nefertiti's also had pierced ears.

...

"Nefertiti gave birth six times, so her hips should be very broad, but this mummy's hips are very narrow," said Hawass, who inspected the mummy on Friday.

Professor of Egyptology at the American University in Cairo Salima Ikram said X-rays of the mummy taken by the University of York's expedition would clarify whether it had given birth.

"The evidence does not at all support the finding of Nefertiti," Ikram said in a telephone interview.

"It would be very obvious from any X-rays of the mummy whether it had given birth...there would be specific markings."

Hawass said Nefertiti was widely believed to be at least 35-years-old when she died, but Brothwell's expedition report concluded an age range of 18-30 for the mummy.


Taken from http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/s935712.htm

But now I have no idea who it could be. I always thought KV55's mummy to be Smenkhkare...
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Meritaton
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the KV55 mummy is Smenkhkare, then this one (if it's a man) can be Thutmose (maybe he was about 18-20 when he died, after all, he had some titles that indicate that he was grown up). But I really don't know. The whole Amarna age is a total chaos. Smile
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Ankhesenamun3
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2003 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the kv55 mummy is Akhenaten and the Nefertiti mummy is Smenkhkare.
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Kiya
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2003 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
If the KV55 mummy is Smenkhkare, then this one (if it's a man) can be Thutmose (maybe he was about 18-20 when he died, after all, he had some titles that indicate that he was grown up). But I really don't know. The whole Amarna age is a total chaos.

Just because they had titles doesn't mean they were grown up. I'm pretty sure that Ramses II first two sons, Amenhirkhepeshef and Ramses Jr held the title of 'Generalismo of the Army' when they were still minors.
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Samia
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2004 7:13 am    Post subject: Nefertiti?? Reply with quote

I think Hawass is just coming up with excuse after excuse about the "Nefertiti mummy" isn't Nefertiti. Every time I read a comment that he has made on the subject, it is completely different from the ones he has made before. You you ask me he has no idea
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Kiya
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2004 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, my bad, your right about the titles held by Amenhirkhepeshef and Prince RAmses.
I think Hawass problem may have something to do with an article someone directed me to some time ago. CAn't for the life of me remember where but it related to Hawass and his demanding that the Rosetta Stone was stolen from Egypt and should be returned. It also related to comments he made about further excavations and explorations in Egypt would be limited for non Egyptian Egyptologists.
Maybe his doubts about the Nefertiti mummy are related to his need not to not want to share it with the world. It it becomes certain that it is Nefertiti then the whole egyptology community are sure to get involved. He wants to keep it for just his little inner circle I bet.
That facial reconstruction they did on that mummy was astounding wasn't it? Apparently they worked blind with no idea of whom they were supposedly reconstructing.
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PharoahKel
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2004 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I dont understand how they wouldnt know if it was a guy or girl though... they look.... different, you know?
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Meritaton
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2004 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PharoahKel wrote:
I dont understand how they wouldnt know if it was a guy or girl though... they look.... different, you know?


Really? Who would have believed...

Smile
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nefertiti
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2004 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I for one am positive that Akhenaten is the father of Tutankhamun. And Kiya was Tut's mother. Nefertiti was jealous because she bore 6 daughters and could not conceive a son to inherit the throne, so after Kiya had Tut Nefertiti murdered her. The reason Nefertiti fell out of the picture later on during Akhenaten's reign was because Akhenaten was murdered by Ay, the same man that murdered Tut, so Nefertiti took the throne shortly to cover for her dead husband. Tut was obviously too young, so Nefertiti had to rule as Pharoah for a few years but she disguised herself as a man. She even used a man's name. Also, Queen Tiye's name is pronounced "Tie". Anymore questions?
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Sekhmet
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2004 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nefertiti wrote:
I for one am positive that Akhenaten is the father of Tutankhamun. And Kiya was Tut's mother. Nefertiti was jealous because she bore 6 daughters and could not conceive a son to inherit the throne, so after Kiya had Tut Nefertiti murdered her. The reason Nefertiti fell out of the picture later on during Akhenaten's reign was because Akhenaten was murdered by Ay, the same man that murdered Tut, so Nefertiti took the throne shortly to cover for her dead husband. Tut was obviously too young, so Nefertiti had to rule as Pharoah for a few years but she disguised herself as a man. She even used a man's name. Also, Queen Tiye's name is pronounced "Tie". Anymore questions?


Welcome Nefertiti, Believe me you are not alone in your beliefs. i for one have some questions. See i don't see any reason not to accept that like Great Royal Wives before her, Nefertiti gave her husband at least one royal son and possibly two.

Now for my questions.
1 How could Nefertiti kill Kiya when the last attested(proven fact) for Nefertiti is year 14 of Akhenaten, while Kiya is attested as living until year 15/16 of Akhenaten? See Akhenaten, King of Egypt page 227, by Cyril Aldred. On this basis alone i might say Kiya murdered Nefertiti who had the titles and power. However i like to think murder wasn't as rampart in Royal Egyptian palaces as many others do.

2 What solid proof do you have that Kiya was Tut's mom. How did he keep the Book of the Dead commands to honor her his mother? Now if i am right we can say he honored his dead mother Nefertiti by not destroying her images on the many Aten temples. We know he replaced Kiya's images with those of his wife on Kiya's temples. See Cyril Aldred's Akhenaten, King of Egypt page 275. He then robbed Kiya, his so called mom's burial goods for a father or brother who died so he could inherit a throne. See page 209.

3 How do you explain the shawabti, (statuette of the dead that is given at time of burial to do the labor that was needed in the Afterlife) found at Amarna, of Nefertiti that gives the inscription. "The Heiress, high and mighty in the palace, one trusted [of the King of Upper and Lower Egypt (Neferkheperure Wa'enre)/ the Son of Re (Akhenaten),/Great in] his Lifetime, the Chief Wife of the King (Neferneferuaten-Neferitit), Living for Ever and Ever"'?

4)If she had ruled as you believe why does she have an shawabti that grants her titles only as Chief Wife of Pharaoh? My answer to this question is on page 230 of Akhenaten, King of Egypt.

Let's see here Nefertiti, unable to save her husband from his evil murdering servant, takes on a male identification rules a couple of years, as regent for a nine year old boy. Nefertiti then dies, the evil servant becomes advisor to the kid, lets him live another 6-7 years, even as the kid attempts to have children with his wife. Then that old evil servant kills him at the time of a major defeat of Egyptian armies against Hattiti. Right! You go right ahead and believe what you want.

Nefertiti I know i have been there done that and now i'm making up for the past beliefs, i had based upon my feelings plus one or two books. Egyptianology isn't based upon feelings to be honest. Like all sciences it should be based on facts. Unfortunately to many "facts" regarding the Amarna Period have ended up in the garbage bag since i first learned of it. Because to many of those facts were originally based upon feelings from the 19th and 20th century AD not the 14th century BCE. If you can really answer my questions with other than i know, you know, or we know, please i await the answers. I hope you have a nice day.
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