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Biblical Pharaoh
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Tadukhipa
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Joined: 18 Jan 2003
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2003 1:09 pm    Post subject: Biblical Pharaoh Reply with quote

So who do you think that the Pharaoh in the Moses story is? Personally I think that he's Ramses II. What are your thoughts?
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nefertikaure
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2003 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it was also Ramesses ll, which makes his father Seti l. The story of Exodus is very interesting!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
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Akhenaten
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Joined: 06 Jul 2002
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2003 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it's either Thutmose I or II. I'll have to tell you why later, I'm a work and I don't have time Smile
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Tadukhipa
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2003 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When you have time, please tell! I'm curious.
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Akhenaten
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2003 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, I have some time now Smile

The reason I think that the Biblical Pharaoh is Thutmose I or II (OR Amunhotep I, I forgot about him Smile is because .....

1. According to my research I have discovered that the date of the Exodus from Egypt is around 1513 B.C.E., much earlier than the time of Ramses II.

2. If it were Amunhotep I, science has proven that Amunhotep I and Thutmose I were NOT related, maybe because the son of Amunhotep I was killed by the 10th Plague of God?

3. I'm running out of time, I wrote about this in some other part of this forum, look under "Pharaohs," I think.
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Tadukhipa
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PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2003 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did the Biblical Pharaoh die when the Red Sea flooded onto the soldiers? (I should know this one but I don't...) If so, then would it be possible to mummify the body (assuming they found it)? I suppose sometimes the Bible puts in things for symbolic purposes, so even if he DID die in the flood then we should take it with a grain of salt... Any Bible experts here?
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Akhenaten
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PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2003 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, the Bible does say that the Pharaoh of the time died when the waters of the Red Sea poured back into place. They probably still could have mummified the body, if they could find it. If not, then I don't know what they would have done.
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Meritaton
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Joined: 30 May 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2003 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is possible that it wasn't the Pharaoh himself who has died, but a general or commander. The Bible loves to emphasize the victories of the Jews, so maybe 'pharaoh' was written instead of 'general' to make the victory greater.
As for the plague, there were many children who died in infancy, including first-born sons. (Just remember your own brother, Akhenaten. Smile Ramesses II is also said to have an older brother who has died at a young age. So did Thutmose IV (remember the Dream Stelae where the Sphynx promises him that he'll be king - he wasn't crown prince at that time!)

Please tell us about this research of yours, if you have the time! I think I'm not the only one who's curious.
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Akhenaten
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2003 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, I'd be glad to share my research with you... Here's what I have found:

Accroding to my Bible and another source, the Exodus from Egypt was 1514 or 1513 B.C.E., which would be correct, since counting backwards from 539 B.C.E., when Babylon was overthrown by Cyrus, king of Persia, seventy years, would take you to 607 B.C.E., when the Jews were taken captive to Babylon. Before that were 906 years of oversight by leaders, judges, and Israel's kings, which would bring you to 1513. So that would lead us to what king we would be looking for, remembering, of course, that there will always be a varying of dates by Bible historians, as well as Egyptologists. Therefore, I have chosen the closest Pharaohs to the early 1500's out of several different books:

"The complete Valley of the Kings" by Nicholas Reeves and Richard H. Wilkinson : "Amosis 1550-1525 Amenophis I 1525-1504." Now this one makes a lot of sense, the dates are really close, and I read that after Amosis (Also Ahmose) founded the 18th Dynasty, his son died and another person not related to the royal line had to rule (The only problem is that I don't remember if it was Amosis or Amenophis, but either one wold be close). So it would make sense because, since whichever of these Pharaoh's heirs could have been kiled by God in the 10th plague, anotehr person not in the family would have had to rule, instead. The mummy of Amenophis I's mummy was found but never unwrapped, so cause of death is unknown, and I don't think that the mummy of Amosis was ever discovered.

"Conversations with mummies" by Rosalie David and Rich Archbold says "1525-1512 Tuthmosis I." This is the closest date I found. it's only one or two years off from the other dates I have found (Dates as in being, the last year that the Pharaohs ruled, assuming that the Pharaoh died in the Red Sea, since that is what the Bible says, and that is what I believe).

Well, I need to look through my other books and find the timelines again, I'll let you know the next closest ones I find.
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Meritaton
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2003 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow! I see you spent lots of time with this research. But are you sure the numbers of years are correct? The Bible can go to extremes when it comes to years, for example it states that Noah was 600 years old, and so on.
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Akhenaten
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2003 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

People really lived that long, though! It was because, since Adam was perfect until he sinned, people back then were closer to perfection. The magazine I talked about in my previous post has some information about this, too. I have a few extra copies, if anyone would like to read them. Just tell me.
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Kiya
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2003 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am a Christian but not one who takes the Bible literally. I don't believe that Noah was 600 yrs old when he died and I put this down to mistranlation of ancient texts. Numbers are easily confused. A good book to read is 'the Testament' by David Rohl, he has an interesting perspective although he doesn't pretend it is anything other that a story he has made up that fits the facts. He does accompany it with some interesting historical setting information.

On another point, just to clarify. People say it was the Red Sea that flooded the egyptian army but this rose from the self same mistranlations I have just mentioned. Apparently it wasn't actually the Red Sea but 'the Sea of Reeds', which isn't really a 'sea' as we would think of one.
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Shepeskaf the Cool
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Even though archeologists have searched for evidence of the sojorn in the 19th dynasty strata, no evidence has ever been found. For evidence of asiatic occupation it is necessary to dig deeper into the strata of the 2nd imntermediate period.

There came to power in egypt a king who did not know Joseph, ex 1.8

this suggests an external dynasty, as any egyptian noble house assuming the throne would have known all of the stories of the court.
Brooklyn 35.1446 which is dated to the reign of sobekhotep III, lists the israelite population as having been subjugated as Khenmu, Sobekhotep was of the 13th dynasty, most of whom reigned only for short periods & have distinctly foreign names.

a short dynasty, neferhotep to Ay reigns for 63 years. Then there follows 9 kings ( not pharoah ) in 23 years. during this time egypt loses control of Nubia & lower Egypt.

The kingdom is split into rival dynasties ruling from several "capitals", manetho's 14th seems to have ruled from Avaris,

If there was an event which paralelled the plagues & the loss of the army it would seem most likely that this occured in the reign of the last of the 13th dynasty Dudimose.


For those who claim that it was the Hyksos kings who introduced chariots to Egypt, the tomb of Ay, depicts his master of horsewearing charioteers gloves & later Prince Konsuemwaset, son of Dudimose is depicted with the same gloves. Dudimose was followed by the Hyksos or shepherd kings. Perhaps his unfortunate prince was the victim of the pa-zufy.

Psalm 78 tells us that evil angels were sent against the egyptians, but the original hebrew Malakhei roim means king shepherds, evil angels would be Malakhim roim
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kozzol
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Joined: 07 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For me it has to be Amenhotep III, to much surounding this period. His Heir to the throne, Thutmose disappears so his other son Akhehaten takes the throne and turns the whole of Egypt into serving one god, Aten.

There is alot more information concerning this period and the build up to what could have been the Exodus.
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Nefertari1
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 6:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ramesses II
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