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Sorry to inform you guys of this obvious fact, but King Tut
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Merytre-Hatshepsut
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Joined: 04 May 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2005 4:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I don't care because you're arguing in fact about what shade of brown or black Tut would have been. In my opinion the answer does not add anything whatsoever to the overall picture of the time period. Nor does it really tell us anything about him.


And personally I just find any race debate somewhat distasteful because race arguments are usually not used for the greater good, if you know what I mean. It has nothing to do with fear, but everything to do with the recognition that the outdated theories about race have caused a lot of damage throughout history (and in the present).
Race is just a very superficial way of dividing up humans in several categories.

And my gripe was mainly with the logic and the arguments employed.

I personally prefer thinking about many other questions Very Happy
Who was regent for Tut when he was small? (Assuming that due to his age he had to have a regent).
How far was he able to go in his return to orthodoxy after the Amarna age?
What were the respective roles of Aye and Horemheb precisely during his role?
Was General Nakhtmin really the son of Aye? If so, was he groomed as crown-prince?
How long did it take the Amun priesthood to get back on it's feet? Where did the resources come from to pay for all of that? Any signs of very heavy taxes on say Nubia?

I think I'll shut up now Very Happy Laughing
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kmt_sesh
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2005 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
If it's not a big deal then why has it become one?


That's the question, isn't it? I can't speak for anyone else, but as for myself it becomes a matter worth discussion when someone attempts to use the issue to serve some personal or pseudo-political agenda not based on historical evidence or the scientific method. In other words, I get riled when it's based on fantasy, not fact. Wink
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Danielle
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2005 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Race is just a very superficial way of dividing up humans in several categories.

But, humans do belong in different categories, we are different. A black couple can't give birth to a white child, therefore we must be different. I guess we can say humans come in different breeds. Razz

Quote:
In other words, I get riled when it's based on fantasy, not fact.

That's completely understandable. Just take a look at the topics title, it's hilarious! I still don't understand why quest would write that. Confused
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Psusennes I
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2005 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"But, humans do belong in different categories. I guess we can say humans come in different breeds."

You guess wrong. That not only sounds supercilious, but also offensive, derogatory and short-sighted. Humans are not of different breeds- we just have differing amounts of melatonin in the skin to protect against varying amounts of sunlight. The fact that on the lowest most obvious level different people look just that, different, doesn't mean that they 'belong in different categories'. The Nazis categorized humans. Humans were categorized during the Khmer Rouge, the Holocaust. . . the list goes on.

Sheesh! I thogut people were beyond this!
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kmt_sesh
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2005 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think Danielle was trying to take it in that direction, Psussenes I. That's not her style. She was just trying to express that people are different and cannot all be lumped together, and in that light she is correct. Physiologically speaking there numerous differences between the different races of the world. And it's an oversimplification to suggest we all want and need the same things. A young man of the Masai is not going to be terribly interested in climbing the corporate ladder of a Fortune 500 company any more than a Wall Street type in New York is hoping to acquire a sufficient herd of cattle for the sake of a dowry. Our wants and needs are determined by our nation, our culture, our family, and our upbringing, and by how all of these external factors influence us as individuals.

There's nothing negative about saying any of this because it's the truth. When we start looking at the human value of a person based on his or her ethnicity or background, then we sink into racist thinking. "Breeds" was the wrong word to use, an innocent mistake.
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Merytre-Hatshepsut
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2005 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Inherited traits do NOT create "different breeds".
There are many things we inherit from our parents: blood type, height, susceptibility to heart disease, susceptibility to certain types of cancer, skin color, wether we go bald at a young age, and many many more.

I inherited an illness from my mother (as did my sister). We all had surgery and live happily ever after. This does not mean we're some "different breed" even though it's genetic Laughing

I agree with you Psusennes. I wish people would get past this as well Wink

The human genome is wonderfully diverse and we should just enjoy it without trying to "rank" people.
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kmt_sesh
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2005 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I agree with you Psusennes. I wish people would get past this as well


I believe that, unfortunately, people will never get past this. One's ethnicity is a huge part of his or her identity and should be a source of pride. What's important is to teach our children now that all ethnicities are valuable and that everyone has much to contribute because of the unique way in which he or she grew up. Intolerance is certainly not genetic and is a learned behavior--I believe it is the responsibility of every parent and every adult who works with kids to help them to learn these things in a healthy and affirming way.
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Merytre-Hatshepsut
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2005 12:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I say "get over it" I mean racism, not ethnicity. Those are in my opinion two different things.

And I think your throw away comment about the use of words being an innocent mistake is missing the point a bit. Within the context and the example given, I found the original comment a bit offensive. And yes, knowing Danielle she didn't mean it that way (I have a hard time believing that Very Happy)

Words are a powerful tool, and in such sensitive topics you do have to be careful in what you write and say in my opinion Wink

On the other hand maybe the discussion in a good one as it brings out a more civilized approach to these issues?

I kinda liked this factoid:
Quote:
The Human Genome Project thus far has revealed that roughly 99.9 percent of the DNA of every person on the planet is identical. Human variation, in height, skin color, and so forth, is actually determined by a tiny fraction of the genome. And genetic variations within ethnic groups are wider than those between different groups.
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kmt_sesh
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2005 2:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
And yes, knowing Danielle she didn't mean it that way (I have a hard time believing that )


What can I say? I try to believe that people are instrinsically good unless they give me clear cause to believe otherwise. I don't think she meant anything offensive by it.

But I have been known to be na´ve. Surprised

Quote:
Words are a powerful tool, and in such sensitive topics you do have to be careful in what you write and say in my opinion


I agree, words can and do hurt. "Political correctness" as it was intended was a necessary and useful guide for all of us, but in my opinion we have all become oversensitive about too many things. The least little thing seems to offend--it matters not what you say, someone will take issue with it. Sometimes it's difficult to express one's self honestly for fear of saying the wrong thing, and I grow weary of it. Rolling Eyes

Quote:
On the other hand maybe the discussion in a good one as it brings out a more civilized approach to these issues?


Yes, indeed. It goes to what I just wrote, in a way. It does no good to bury one's head and become overly concerned about what one says. A mature adult should know how to carry on polite and sincere discourse. Look at this very discussion, for instance. It was pretty heated at the beginning, but I think it turned into something more open and level headed.
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Merytre-Hatshepsut
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2005 5:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Quote:
And yes, knowing Danielle she didn't mean it that way (I have a hard time believing that )


I feel like I'm beating this to death, but I wanted to point out that the parenthetical remark was meant to clarify that I don't think she meant anything negative.
After rereading it - with your comments - I got the impression you thought it was a touch of sarcasm ...

Quote:
... but in my opinion we have all become oversensitive about too many things. The least little thing seems to offend--it matters not what you say, someone will take issue with it. Sometimes it's difficult to express one's self honestly for fear of saying the wrong thing

I think that the point is that people keep communicating. Just because somebody takes issue with something another says doesn't mean that that's a negative thing. You have to be free to speak your mind and discuss the matter at hand. And that includes telling people you don't like what they have just said.

I don't think that has much to do with being "oversensitive".
LOL Personally I'm more likely to just be opinionated, which may result in much the same thing Laughing

What is apparent is that certain mediums are prone to miscommunications. Email and discussion boards are prime examples. You can't tell sometimes what people's tone of voice is, and you can't read any facial expressions or body language.
I think that in face to face discussions with people you tend to immediatly clear up any questions. You also have immediate resolution of any questions you have. Whereas in the electronic world of today people have time to sit and stew and dig nice trenches for themselves Very Happy

Sooo, time to get back to ancient egypt?
Heard any good stories about tombs, temples or pyramids lately?
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Psusennes I
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Joined: 09 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2005 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"The Human Genome Project thus far has revealed that roughly 99.9 percent of the DNA of every person on the planet is identical."

Apparently 99% of our DNA is the same as that of a chimpanzee!
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Merytre-Hatshepsut
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2005 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very Happy LOL There's actually an advertisement on here in the USA where the question is asked what we do with the other 1 percent.
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Danielle
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2005 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh geez, I guess I should have put a little laughing emitican beside my statement about the whole 'breeds' thing, (appartently the tongue sticking out wasn't sufficient) I sincerely apologize for offending you guys. The reason I wrote that was because I was thinking about domesticated cats, even though they are the same species there are different breeds. I now realise that humans are not cats. Razz Laughing
Quote:
I don't think Danielle was trying to take it in that direction, Psussenes I. That's not her style. She was just trying to express that people are different and cannot all be lumped together, and in that light she is correct.

Thank you kmt_sesh. I'm just realistic. Very Happy
Quote:
we just have differing amounts of melatonin in the skin to protect against varying amounts of sunlight.

Oh, it's so much more than the colour of skin.
Quote:
The human genome is wonderfully diverse and we should just enjoy it without trying to "rank" people.

I hope you don't think I'm 'ranking' people just because I admitted we're different. One enthnicity is certainly not better than another ethnicity.
Quote:
I believe it is the responsibility of every parent and every adult who works with kids to help them to learn these things in a healthy and affirming way.

So true. I try so damn hard to teach my half brothers about different ethnicities and cultures and that we are all equal, but it doesn't help when one of their parents is a racist. But it's funny, because we have become so damn touchy about what we say and stuff, we're teaching kids to be like that too. My brothers teacher basically taught him the 'n' word. One day he called his black friend the 'n' word because he had heard him say it(he called himself it), the teacher ran outside all dramatic like and gave my brother heck for it. The black boy didn't get punished at all. He had no idea why he was getting in trouble, he didn't know what the word meant, but he sure does now!, and guess what he calls me when he is mad at me?
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kmt_sesh
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2005 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
LOL There's actually an advertisement on here in the USA where the question is asked what we do with the other 1 percent.


My question is, exactly what is it that the other 1% does? If we activate that gene in us, does it affect behavior. When angry, will we swing from trees and throw poo at our aggressors? Razz
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Merytre-Hatshepsut
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2005 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kmt_sesh wrote:
When angry, will we swing from trees and throw poo at our aggressors? Razz


LMAO Quite an image you're painting for us here Laughing
( *takes out her watercolor and brushes* )

If you get arrested will you be able to plead the "chimp defense?" (Right up there with the "twinky defense" I guess).
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