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Help with translation/interpretation of title?

 
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Merytre-Hatshepsut
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Joined: 04 May 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 6:52 pm    Post subject: Help with translation/interpretation of title? Reply with quote

I was just reading something written by Kurt Sethe. It's in German, hence the question.
He mentions an official named Ineni who served from Tuthmosis I all the way to Tuthmosis III.
One of his titles in german is "Vorsteher der Speicher".
The translation I get from google is "Chief of Memory".

Any idea what that is? Overseer of works on the Mortuary temple??
The way "Vorsteher der Speicher" is written sounds a bit more directly involved than just an overseer of works. Unless the chief of works is different than I thought? I thought this was some type of architect who supervised the building?

Or would the title mean sometingg like "Steward at the Mortuary temple"?

Any suggestions / insights?
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Psusennes I
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Joined: 09 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have no idea if this will help, as it sounds like the literal meaning might not convey the actual Egyptian meaning very well. Free translation gave me "Director of the storages," AltaVista gave me "Chief of the memory" (?) and another translator gave me "Chief of the warehouses."

Thus I'd conclude that it was at least vaguely related both to administration and perhaps to overseeing the storage of something. Does that help at all? It sounds utterly useless to me. Ask Kmt_Sesh, perhaps? He said something about doing German. I'm useless with Modern Languages. Overall I do English, French, Ancient Greek, Latin and Hieroglyphs . . . but not German, regrettably. It's a really interesting language, and sounds fantastic!
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Merytre-Hatshepsut
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the help Psusennes.
I wonder if Overseer of the Storehouses is the title meant (that one at least sounds familiar.)

You might still like the texts by Sethe. They are on this site:
http://www.etana.org/abzu/
It's page 13 if you go to the Authors starting with 'S' page.

One link is the paper in German I was reading, but the other pages are actually copies of the real hieroglyphic inscriptions. You might get a kick of reading some of the texts in their hieroghyphic form Very Happy
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Psusennes I
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Joined: 09 Sep 2004
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Location: England

PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2005 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow! They have the actual works of the Leipzig University on the net. . . and most of his illustration of the Berlin Pyramid texts. That website is a goldmine! If you could see me now, jumping up and down! Very Happy Most of it's beyond me, but I can understand a few sentences:

'P' rots not, he decays not! 'P' shall not be constrained by your terrible wrath O Mighty Gods! (annoyingly I don't know who 'P' is)

It's such a fantastic piece of literature. They analyse the Bible at school- why not Egyptian?! Actually I did come across one person who studied the Adomnitions of Ipuwerat school; they came here seeking some help understanding the unusual metaphor.
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Merytre-Hatshepsut
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Joined: 04 May 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2005 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LOL I figured you would love it.

It has an amazing collection of texts as you mentioned. I think it's great that they made all of this available through the internet.

It was the place where I initially read Breasted's Ancient records. I have since then bought volumes 1-3 because I just don't like reading on my computer screen too much.


Did you mean Lepsius in your post. I at one point looked through his online collection kept at the university of Halle. The text is in German, but again there are electronic copies of his copies of the inscriptions he made. My computer at home is too slow, but I sometimes look at it at work Wink
http://edoc3.bibliothek.uni-halle.de/lepsius/
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Merytre-Hatshepsut
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Joined: 04 May 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2005 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Psusennes I wrote:

'P' rots not, he decays not! 'P' shall not be constrained by your terrible wrath O Mighty Gods! (annoyingly I don't know who 'P' is)


Is it Pe? As in the "souls of Pe and Nekhen"? Pe representing Buto?

Just a wild guess on my part.
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Psusennes I
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2005 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No. It just says 'P' in plain English. It's just a generic name for whowever the text could refer to. It's modern convention to use 'N' now though.
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kmt_sesh
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2005 11:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I wonder if Overseer of the Storehouses is the title meant (that one at least sounds familiar.)


That's basically how I would translate Vorsteher der Speicher: "Overseer of the Storehouse" or "Warehouse." Vorsteher can mean anything from "clerk" to "superintendent" to "director," so I think "overseer" is appropriate for the translation.

I'll tell you one thing, I know German moderately well, but this is the first time I've ever tried to take something from the Egyptian to another language and finally to my own language, English. It's tricker than I thought. Maybe I'd better just forget about the Wörterbuch altogether! Surprised
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Merytre-Hatshepsut
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2005 1:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had no problem reading most of the German text Very Happy
It was really just the titles that get a bit tricky. My guess would be that those are hardest to translate anyways.
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