Ancient Egyptian Forum

Merytre-Hatshepsut · Posted: Thu May 26, 2005 1:09 am Post subject:

I was watching a program last week in which Salima Ikram stated that to get good DNA results you would have to use the teeth (this is where the DNA is best preserved), and so it would actually be quite invasive on most mummies.

Not sure if the hair follicles would still contain viable DNA after this long a time.

BTW the hair in the container naming Tiye was not the only hair found in Tut's tomb. There were also to unidentified balls of hair which some think may be the hair of Tut and his wife Ankhesenamen (from some sort of wedding ritual?) This can be found on the Griffith Institute website.

Google · Sponsor

Lostris · Posted: Fri May 27, 2005 12:11 pm Post subject:

Hatshepsut, could you tell us the URL of the website?
_________________
http://belldandy.freeblog.hu --> my blog site

Merytre-Hatshepsut · Posted: Fri May 27, 2005 12:37 pm Post subject:

Sure Lostris Very Happy

The main site for the Griffith institute is here:
http://www.ashmol.ox.ac.uk/Griffith.html

There's lots of interesting stuff there. If you're interested in the info about Tutankhamen, then the page about "Tutankhamun: Anatomy of an Excavation" is a real gem.

The original pictures taken by Brunton and the notes made by Howard Carter can bee seen. I spent some time just "surfing" through all the finds from the tomb. There's even a search engine, allthough it's somewhat hard to come up with the right keywords to search on.

The tut page containing the database is here:
http://www.ashmolean.museum/gri/4tut.html

The list of objects from the tomb is here:
http://www.ashmolean.museum/gri/carter/

Here's the lock of plaited hair in the small sarcophagus shaped container with the name of Tiye on it:
http://www.ashmolean.museum/perl/gi-ca-qmakesumm.pl?sid=172.165.202.244-1117196932&qno=1&curr=320e

I'm having some problem finding the information about the balls of hair of Tut and Ankhesenamen.

I'll get back to you if I find it.

Anneke

Merytre-Hatshepsut · Posted: Fri May 27, 2005 12:44 pm Post subject:

Here it is Very Happy

:
Painted alabaster box containing horse-hair, but also :

the_tutness_is_here · Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 2:06 am Post subject:

I read this book by Micheal Hayes on the Ancient Egyptians, and it states that the Ancient Egyptians didn't have a ceremony...the wife simply moved into her husband's house. The book doesn't mention Royal weddings in Ancient Egypt, so if anyone can clear this up, I'd appreciate it. Wink

_________________

How does it FEEL to lose the one who understood you the MOST? He died to protect you, and YOU were supposed to protect HIM. What a shame...

Unas · Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:20 am Post subject:

Yeah, it's pretty unknown what happened. There's a topic at glyphdoctors.com having to do with the subject.

You'll have to register, log-in, etc. if you want to see what she actually posted, but here... Er... here's what it is ::

[quote=Nicole Hansen]
Many people have been asking for a summary of my talk at ARCE last weekend and so here it is:

In most societies, the three life events that involve the most ritual activity are birth, marriage and death. While Egyptian rituals associated with birth and death are well-known, Egyptologists hqave long contended that the ancient Egyptians did not perform any sort of wedding ceremony or ritual. Ancient Egyptian couples, they said (in a thouroughly modern way), simply moved in together.

In my paper, I argued that this was not the case. The main body of evidence I used to support my theory was a collection of songs, probably from Deir el-Medina, known by Egyptologists as "love songs." This misnomer has led Egyptologists to overlook their true function, and that is as wedding songs.

I used three lines of argument to support my case: 1-comparison between the ancient songs and modern Egyptian wedding songs in terms of themes, 2-references to rituals in the ancient songs that are performed at modern Egyptian weddings, and 3-internal evidence from the songs themselves and comparative material from ancient times dealing with marriage.

In short, I was able to reconstruct weddings at Deir el-Medina as follows:

The boy or girl makes a petition to Hathor at Deir el-Bahari, perhaps over a period of 3 days, for a specific spouse.
The boy approaches his beloved's mother to express an interest in her.
Once the parents agree on the match, seven days of possibly sex-segregated celebration with singing and feasting takes place, surrounded by flowers.
Guests at the festivities gives gifts, which are later repaid at similar events.
In preparation for the groom's arrival the bride has her hair braided, while songs extolling her physical beauty are sung.
Upon the groom's arrival at his bride's home, an animal is slaughtered on the doorstep, and the groom's hand is kissed 4 times.
To thank her for her help in obtaining the desired spouse, a feast is made for Hathor.
The paper was well-received by the conference attendees. I need to do further research before I publish it though, because I did not have a chance to review all of the relevant books and articles that I wanted to cover before the conference.[/quote]

To read the full discussion, you'll have to register...
_________________
"Does anyone ever truly think 'outside' of the box, or are they merely expanding the possibilities of what that box can hold to suit their own agenda?"
(Piquet: Nov. 3, 2005)

the_tutness_is_here · Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2005 3:05 am Post subject:

Thanks, Unas, I appreciate the article! ^_^
_________________

How does it FEEL to lose the one who understood you the MOST? He died to protect you, and YOU were supposed to protect HIM. What a shame...

Guest · Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2005 3:52 pm Post subject:

Aten

Appearance:
A sun disk with rays which end in hands

Aten was a form of the sun god Ra.
During the reign of Akhenaten, the Aten was made the 'king' of the gods.

the_tutness_is_here · Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 12:02 am Post subject:

....Yeah....anyway, back to what's REALLY important!! The topic at hand, I realized that more people in my poll have voted Akhenaten as Tut's father. Makes me feel special inside... Crying or Very sad

I'm so happy!! Heh, anyway, sorry, I just wanted this topic to SOMEHOW stay alive!! Laughing

_________________

How does it FEEL to lose the one who understood you the MOST? He died to protect you, and YOU were supposed to protect HIM. What a shame...

Guest · Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 12:41 am Post subject:

Selket · Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 12:59 am Post subject:

It's simple math. Tut was only 9 when he took the throne and Ankhenaton ruled for 17 years.

Are we sure it's Kiya,though? Didn't the Egyptians take records of royal births?

Merytre-Hatshepsut · Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 1:31 am Post subject:

the_tutness_is_here · Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 1:45 am Post subject:

I would have thought that Akhenaten, as a young child and before he became pharaoh at age 19 (And according to some of my books), He was kept in the dark. Thutmose, his older brother, was mentioned more than he was--obviously, because he was the hier to the throne before he died at age 14(?). Only that wine docket (Which in another book I read, they said a jar lid that said "Amenhotep IV, king's son") was any clue to Akhenaten's past. Other than that, unless more is found, we really have a small idea of what his past was. It's interesting to note that only after Akhenaten became pharaoh was he ever acknowledged at all. (Evidence pending).

Not to mention, he, Tut and even Ay are ommited from the king's list. Wouldn't you think that Tut would be on the list if he was Amenhotep III's son? It's more probable he was left out, for being the son of a heretic, the "Criminal of Akhetaten". Instead, after Amenhotep III, Horemheb's name is in the place of all 3 pharaohs.

As for Kiya, she IS a likely canidate for being Tut's mom. Since Smenkhare and Tut are brothers (Maybe), then Kiya would have born 2 sons, and supposedly a daughter, since she is shown with one.
_________________

How does it FEEL to lose the one who understood you the MOST? He died to protect you, and YOU were supposed to protect HIM. What a shame...

Merytre-Hatshepsut · Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 2:04 am Post subject:

the_tutness_is_here · Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 2:22 am Post subject:

I'm glad you agree with me, Merytre-Hatshepsut, I'm glad I finally asked an "Interesting question"!! Laughing

Anyway, it depends....does anyone know approx. how old Smenkhare was when he died? Do you mean too old, like he was in his 20's-30's?

And you're right, the fascination is the little proof that is given--or maybe even, if I'm so bold as to say, hidden. Wink

I still say it's likely that Tut is Akhenaten's son, and besides, he wouldn't be ommited off a list like that for living in Akhetaten. Remember that Horemheb was also in Akhetaten, and he's ON the list. It might be because of heredity that Tut was left off.
_________________

How does it FEEL to lose the one who understood you the MOST? He died to protect you, and YOU were supposed to protect HIM. What a shame...