Ancient Egyptian Forum

[Ankhesenamun3]

Yeah I have heard of that warning before, but it was just made up.It was also used in The Mummy movies.

[Google]

[Osiris II]

That may be true, Ank. that it was used in the mummy movie, but I remember seeing a special on T.V. with Hawass reading the characters on the portal of a tomb--I think it was in Saqqera--of that curse used there, with several others. I wish I could remember the name of that special. I think it was the one about opening a sealed tomb. It was quite a diisappointment, the tomb held only a few broken pots and the 'mummy' was only a skeleton.

[thepharohsgod]

is there any kind of proof that curses exist or did exist?

[Osiris II]

Well, we can use the many inscriptions from various tombs to prove that the AE did use curses.
Trying to prove that the most famous curse, that of Tutankhamen, is more difficult, though. There never was any inscription or papyrus found in Tut's tomb that stated any curse--it was just the workings of a fertile imagination, presumably a reporter trying to get a new "slant" on the tomb for his paper. The various deaths that occured, and are attributed to the curse is questionable. While it is true that quite a few deaths did occur, and those who died had some inter-action with the tomb, it is either a supernatural happening or a fraud. I think the main thing to remember though, is that there was NO curse found in Tutankhamen's tomb.

[Sekhmet]

http://www.catchpenny.org/

Catchpenny Mysteries © copyright 2000 by Larry Orcutt.
The Curse of the Open Tomb

Perhaps the most notorious case of a deadly but unwitting mummy's curse occurred not in Egypt, but in Poland. Casimir IV (Casimir Jagiellonian, b. Nov. 30,1427 - d. June 7, 1492) was the grand duke of Lithuania (1440-92) and king of Poland (1447-92).

The remains of King Casimir IV and his wife Elizabeth were interred in a tomb situated in the chapel of Wawel Castle in Krakow, Poland. With the consent of Cardinal Wojtyla (Archbishop of Krakow, today better known as Pope John Paul II), a team of scientists was given permission to open the tomb and examine the remains, with restoration as the ultimate objective.

Casimir's tomb was opened on Friday, April 13, 1973. Twelve researchers were present. Inside the tomb they found a wooden coffin that was heavily rotted. It contained what was left of the king's decayed corpse. Little did anyone know that a real "mummy's curse" had been initiated.

Within a few days, four of the twelve had died. Not long after, there were only two survivors: Dr. Boleslaw Smyk, a microbiologist, and Dr. Edward Roszyckim. Smyk was to suffer problems with his equilibrium for the next five years. In the course of his microbiological examinations, Dr. Smyk found traces of fungi on the royal insignia taken from the tomb. He identified three species: Aspergillus flavus, Penicillim rubrum, and Penicillim rugulosum. These fungi are known to produce aflatoxins B1 and B2.

It has been speculated that these fungi may have been responsible for Lord Carnarvon's ill-health and, ultimately, his death. When the mummy of Ramesses II was taken to the Musée de l'Homme in Paris in 1976, examination revealed that 89 different species of fungi (including Aspergillus) were growing in and on the mummy. 370 separate colonies of fungi were found. Fortunately, the researchers wore surgical masks.

In 1999, Gotthard Kramer, a German microbiologist from the University of Leipzig, analyzed 40 mummies and identified several potentially dangerous mold spores on each one. Mold spores are stalwart and are able to survive for thousands of years. Kramer speculates that the flow of fresh air into a newly opened tomb can blow the spores into the air where they may be inhaled. "When spores enter the body through the nose, mouth or eye mucous membranes," he wrote, "they can lead to organ failure or even death, particularly in individuals with weakened immune systems."

It is evident that tiny organisms -- airborne spores -- pose much more of a threat to archaeologists and Egyptologists than curses found inscribed on tomb walls. Indeed, they are a known risk and may yet kill again.
The Suspects:

Aspergillus flavus (aw 0.78; conidia dimensions 3-6 microns). Some strains are capable of producing a group of mycotoxins in the aflatoxin group (aflatoxins are known animal carcinogen but there is limited evidence to suggest that this toxin is a human carcinogen). The toxin is a poisonous to humans by ingestion, and occupational disease via inhalation can result. It is toxic to the liver and is reported to be allergenic; its presence is associated with reports of asthma. This fungus is associated with aspergillosis of the lungs and/or disseminated aspergillosis. It is occasionally identified as the cause of corneal, otomycotic and nasoorbital infections. Experiments have indicated that it is teratogenic and mutagenic. Aspergillus flavus can be found in warm soil and is sometimes found in water damaged carpets. The production of the fungal toxin is dependent on the growth conditions and on the substrate used as a food source.

Aspergillus ochraceus (aw 0.77; conidia dimensions 2.5-3 microns). Can produce a kidney toxin, ochratoxin A, which may produce ochratoxicosis in humans (this is also known as Balkan nephropathy). The toxin is produced at optimum growth conditions at 25 degrees C and high moisture conditions. The ochratoxin may also be produced by other Aspergillus and Penicillium species. Other toxins which can be produced by this fungus include penicillic acid, xanthomegnin and viomellein. These are all reported to be kidney and liver toxins. Aspergillus ochraceus is found not only in soils, but also in grains and salted food products. It is not usually associated with decaying vegetation.

Penicillium species (aw 0.78-0.8. Includes a wide number of organisms, and identification to species is difficult. It may cause hypersensitivity pneumonitis and allergic alveolitis in susceptible individuals. It is reported to be allergenic to the skin. Some species can produce mycotoxins. It is a common cause of extrinsic asthma (immediate-type hypersensitivity: type I). Acute symptoms include edema and bronchiospasms; chronic cases may develop pulmonary emphysema. Penicillium is often found in aerosol samples. In addition to being present in soil, it can exist in food (cellulose and grains) and in compost piles. Penicillium species are sometimes found in carpet, wall paper, and in interior fiberglass duct insulation.

http://www.catchpenny.org/
This is a very interesting site with many more topics addressed.
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[img]http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:ygpdGun0X_wJ:www.temoata.org/temoata/lotus.jpg[/img]
how beautiful the lotus flower is! selected 4-4-04

[PharoahKel]

Looks interestiong Sekhy! Ill have to check there when I get time!
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Yea, Im gonna need you to come in on Sunday...

[Si-amun]

On the subject of "curses" I am undecided but I think the ancients had a great knowledge of things which have now been lost to us. Egyptians were famed as experts in poisons, in my opinion that could have something to do with "unexplained deaths". Whether poisons were deliberately placed in tombs or naturally developed, as in the theory of the fungi or bacteria (I wont expand as someone above already has). Whether this is a curse or not is a matter of opinion but I dont think that all the incidents were just mere coincidents or accidents. There was something to do with that tomb, ancient revenge from the gods - probably not but poisons and fungi cannot be completely disregarded.
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Thou dost appear beautiful on the horizon of heaven, oh living Amun, he who was the first to live.

[Osiris II]

The curses put on tombs is a very interesting subject.
I belong to a group--EEO (Egyptian Exploration Organization) that has different speakers give lectures all the time. The evening after the lecture, there is usually a dinner for the speaker at one of the members' homes. I remember, quite some time ago, Dr. Hawass was our lecturer--I don't remember what his talk was about. (sorry!) But at the dinner, he was telling us all about a tomb they had just discovered. It had not been violated, but was still sealed. When it was opened and Hawass and his assistant went in, everything, including the floor, was covered with a fine, red dust. Hawass immediately had everyone leave and the tomb closed off for a while. He told all the workers who had entered the tomb to go home and bathe, and at least wash the clothes they were wearing, if not get rid of them. Two of the workers, who had not been in the tomb for a very long time, did not think it was necessary for them to do so. They contacted a severe resporitory infection, and both were hospitalized for a short time. Fortunately, they both recovered!
Hawass later re-opened the tomb, but made sure everyone who went in wore a surgical mask. Each item taken out of the tomb was carefully dusted!
Hawass theorized that some sort of powder had been spread in the tomb before it was sealed. And he told us that various bacteria strains had been identified in several tombs, most so very fine and un-colored they were not visually detected. He said he was sure that the Egyptians were aware of something to protect the tombs.

[Ankhesenamun3]

Interesting!!

[Si-amun]

Very, they were a very clever bunch and I think in the future we will be really suprised by what they already knew, long before we "discovered" it. Hopefully future finds will shed a greater light on ancient knowledge.
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Thou dost appear beautiful on the horizon of heaven, oh living Amun, he who was the first to live.