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kissMEthursdays
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2004 11:30 am    Post subject: QUESTION Reply with quote

I remember being told that Alexander the Great once claimed to be the son of Ammon (or was Ammon himself). Is Ammon an Egyptian god? Or Greek? Or Macedonian? Good god, who is Ammon!
lol
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2004 11:30 am    Post subject: Advertisement

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Sekhmet
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2004 1:25 pm    Post subject: Re: QUESTION Reply with quote

kissMEthursdays wrote:
I remember being told that Alexander the Great once claimed to be the son of Ammon (or was Ammon himself). Is Ammon an Egyptian god? Or Greek? Or Macedonian? Good god, who is Ammon!
lol


Hi kissMethursdays,

The Ammon you're referring to is most likely a varient spelling of Amun. Although a few scholars such as Baines and Malek argue that it was not* the real Egyptian Amun. But they don't make any suggestions what other god it was.

Alexander III of Macedonian claimed descent from Hercules, who was a son of Zeus. This claim was generally accepted by all the ancient world. When Alexander III, AKA "The Great" marched into Egypt, he was welcomed by the Egyptians who were then being ruled by Persia. While he was in Egypt he made a pilgrimage to consult the then famous Oracle of Siwa. He had his meeting, and never told what the oracle said to him. But from that point on, the Egyptians accepted him as the son of Amun, and legitimized his right to rule Egypt.

*Note, in the original post i forgot the most important word of the sentence! It was NOT, lol.
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Ramsekh
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2004 6:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So was Alexander the Great good to Egypt? I thought I read that he wasn't.
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kissMEthursdays
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2004 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ramsekh wrote:
So was Aexander the Great good to Egypt? I thought I read that he wasn't.



I would assume so because didn't he buil the city of Alexandria? well the name he gave the city is very close to his own name anyway so Egyp must have had a special place in Alexander's heart (?)
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Ramsekh
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2004 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought he just conquered it and renamed it or something.
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Sekhmet
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2004 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ramsekh wrote:
So was Alexander the Great good to Egypt? I thought I read that he wasn't.


Hi Ramsekh, Yes, Alexander was good to Egypt. He liberated them from the Persians. Remember by this time 332BCE. Greeks had been slowly moving into and settling in Egypt for centuries. Alexander, (umm) was in reality King of Greece, something most folks don't know or forget.

It can be said, that while Alexander's army marched into Egypt, it can also be said that they walked stright into the welcoming arms of all Egyptians. Once Alexander was proclaimed the son of Amun, he actually became Pharaoh. Something few of the Ptolomies that followed him did. Once he was accepted as Pharaoh, Egypt gave him all the support to him as they had any of the ancient Pharaohs.

When Alexander III, died he was King of Macedonian by birth, King of Greece by succession to his father's conquests of the Greek cities, Pharaoh of Egypt by acclamation, King of Kings of Persia by conquest. He is a most amazing man and if you're interested in learning more of this truly gifted, man/god i strongly suggest anything written by Mary Renault.

Ms Renault writes both fictional and biographicial work on Alexander the Great. Personally i prefer her analysis of him, his work, and life over most of the others. In other words she writes more as an anthropologist, than just a historian.
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Psusennes I
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2004 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kissMEthursdays wrote:
well the name he gave the city is very close to his own name anyway so Egyp must have had a special place in Alexander's heart (?)


Alexander named hundreds of cities that he conquered 'Alexandria', and indeed many towns reportedly changed their name to 'Alexandria' when they heard that he was on his way. The egyptian Alexandria is by far the most famous however.
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Si-amun
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2004 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The name Alexandria was given to perhaps a dozen cities, not quite hundreds but I see your point. Only a Classical figure could possibly be so vain as to call an entire city after themselves. At least in Egypt they had nice names, not cities like Tutankhamunopolis!
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Psusennes I
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2004 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The cities that end -opolis are all hellenistic, and so have very cool names indeed. Like Crocodilopolis!
I recently got Herodotus' Histories out of our library and I found it greatly interesting- if wildly innacurate!
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Si-amun
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2004 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Come up to London and get yourself a copy, I bought one for £2 a few months ago. That is all they sell in the cheap bookshops and they are pretty good translations as well. I have a couple of copies of it now. I haven't got a book out of a public library in years, I must go and have a look around one. If I want a book I usually just buy it but it would make more sense just to hire it for a while. same with dvd's too I suppose, I waste soooooooo much money.
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Sekhmet
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Psusennes I wrote:

I recently got Herodotus' Histories out of our library and I found it greatly interesting- if wildly innacurate!


i tried and barely succeeded in reading Herodotus'. Thank archaeology that we don't have to depend upon his work any more! LOL
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Si-amun
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I agree but it is a hilarious book. I love the idea of the Memphite priests telling him that they owned a pheonix but it was "away" at the time of his visitation. Those priests were probably wetting themselves with laughter behind their columns as he was taking studious notes!
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Psusennes I
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ha. Well- at least they had a sense of humour!

He also says that the Egyptians were 'backwards'. This seems like a justifiable opinion for a greek, but he goes on to explain that they knead dough with their feet, the men weave at home whilst the women trade at market and the men urinate sitting down whilst the women do so standing up!
He is often called 'the father of modern history', but he really was quite a terrible historian. He believes anything and everything (almost) and just accepts all that he is told. Thucydides, in my opinion was the first true historiographer.
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Si-amun
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2004 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Herodotus wasn't writing a history, I think he was writing a joke book. it has to be the biggest piece of comedy to come out of that miserable excuse for a civilisation that was ancient Greece. It seems quite common though for the ancient greeks to come up with strange ideas and pass them off with no thought of backing them up. A brilliant example of this is Plato. In "Republic" he talks extensively about the Demiurge and the world of the forms without really giving us much of a reason to believe in it at all. At least Aquinas backed his theories with logical argument (even if they have mostly been picked apart by modern science). I just dont think the Greeks could write anything non-fictional without ballsing it all up. As you can tell I am a huge fan of Hellenistic culture! (sarcasm detected) lol
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Psusennes I
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2004 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Surprised

I am a scholar of Ancient Greek and disagree completely with your judgment. The Greeks devised some of the finest literature ever written and their stories, tragedies and plays are still used extensively today.
Their writings have influenced all European art and literature, their remarkable sagas re-used time and time again by both authors and artists. Although the Greeks were in my opinion not as interesting as the Egyptians, their civilization was undoubtedly one of the greatest to ever walk the earth.

It was the rediscovery of Hellenistic art sparked off the artistic revolution that was the Renaissance, and this in turn was responsible for massive developments in art, technology and philosophy. Neo-Classicism was derived solely from the influences of Greek Art, and the colonial style was a successor of this. In my opinion we as Europeans owe our current cultural and architectural style almost exclusively to central Europe and the classical ideals that were born in Greece.
I would however say that the Roman plays and writings are quite frankly rubbish. Thatís why I gave up Latin after four years so that I could continue my studies of Greek.

Greek Literature is some of the most historically interesting and thought provoking ever written, and thus the European countries were gripped by it, and people are still today.

I am sure that you will have a firmly fixed opinion as I do, so I shall agree to disagree on this issue. (Unless you can persuade me otherwise)
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