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Hieroglyphs
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egypt22
Egyptian Architect


Joined: 02 Dec 2002
Posts: 153
Location: Michigan

PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2002 12:46 am    Post subject: hieroglyphs in arizona and australia Reply with quote

i think that the egyptians could have banished someone from their land and heard of a new land and sent them there. Then the banished person then traveled into australia and/or arizona and lived there, puting the heiroglyphs there. I mean you never kow unless you were in that time period and knew exactly what was happening with everyone and everything. but i do think that my idea is a possibility.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2002 12:46 am    Post subject: Advertisement

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Dark_Meryetamun_28
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Joined: 22 Nov 2002
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2002 1:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, but there would be a record that banished people were sent to another "red land." There would have been a record. Or maybe we didn't find it yet.
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Akhenaten
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Joined: 06 Jul 2002
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2002 4:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah. You gotta think with all the things that people have excavated, they've hardly done a thing! Think of all the things not right next to the Nile river, what about the Oases? I wonder how much more there is to discover?
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Akhenaten
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Joined: 06 Jul 2002
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2002 4:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe the went the other way around the globe, maybe through the red sea, like you said, to Australia, and then to America, at the bottom of California, then they could have explored for a while before settling in the caves in the Grand Canyon before carving any Hieroglyphics.

And since there is so far no historical facts abotu this from Egypt, maybe it was a secret expedition.

Okay, I don't know, I'm just typing the first things that pop into my head. It's been a long day and I'm really tired, so if this sounds really stupid and utterly rediculus, that's why.

Good-night,
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Dark_Meryetamun_28
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2002 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, the Pharoah would know about it. Besides rebellion, the people never did anything big without Pharoah's permission.
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PharoahKel
Pharaoh


Joined: 25 Aug 2003
Posts: 1028
Location: Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2003 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the ancient egyptians went to arizona and wrote on the canyon dont you think we would have some evidence outside of the canyon writings?
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PharoahKel
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2004 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do they know how old these are? Maybe some family went down there while on a tour or something like that and carved there names and other glyphs they knew as a joke or something?
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Sekhmet
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Joined: 20 Feb 2004
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Location: Rome, Georgia USA

PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2004 9:47 am    Post subject: Egyptian shipwrecked sailors Reply with quote

PharoahKel wrote:
Do they know how old these are? Maybe some family went down there while on a tour or something like that and carved there names and other glyphs they knew as a joke or something?



Hi Pharaoh Kel, according to Paul White's 1996 article the hieroglyphs are in some places very eroded suggesting a very old age from hundreds to thousands of years.

The hieroglyphs located in New South Wales, Biscayne Park do tell a story. Using archaic hieroglyphs that predate the Middle Kingdom. They tell the story of Egyptian sailors shipwrecked in Australia. Their leader Lord Djes-ed, a royal leader, after two years of working his way westward. Is felled by a snake bite and dies in "this wretched land" and recieves burial there. ( i like the wording 'wretched land' because that is how, especially later period, Egyptians felt about any land other than Egypt.) Three kings are mentioned in the glyphs, Ra-jedef, King of Upper and Lower Nile, the son of Khufu, the son of Sneferue. Placing the tale, and glyphs into the 4th Dynasty.

There is of course much controversy over the glyphs. Are they real or a fraud? There has been no artifacts recovered to support the tale of the glyphs. While some hieroglyphic experts point out that some of the glyphs are written backwards (misspelled so to speak). However this isn't such a problem because as one pointed out if the leader Lord Djes-eb was dead it is possible that their best speller and writer was dead as well. Another aspect is that if the glyphwriter was left handed and not an real expert he might have made some glyphs "backwards".

The Egyptians espeically in the Earlier Periods were well known traders. Khasekhmewy, 2nd Dynastic Pharaoh is the first known Pharaoh to trade by sea with Byblos. The huge ships such that Hatshepsut sent to Punt were known as Byblos ships. These ships date back to Egypt's earlist dynastic period as well.

Dr. Steve Young a speicalist in Ancient Ships even suggests that the Egyptians might have gone to Ur and other Mesopotamian cities by sail during the Predynastic period. Sailing from Red Sea ports of which a few certainly do date back as far as the Predynastic period, he suggests the Egyptians might have made it into the Persian Gulf to trade.

It is known that during the time of Cleopatra IV, one could sail to India from Egyptian ports.

One of Egypt's surviving stories is one about the Shipwrecked Sailor. If Lord Djes-eb, party had been shipwrecked on a trading venture to Punt, the Persian Gulf states, or even to India. There would have been no record of his voyage because he didn't return.

From the Red Sea, his most likely place of departure from Egypt it isn't hard to enter the Indian Ocean. A freak storm, a bad storm could have sent his ship, ships thousands of leagues off course. As there is very little big islands between the Horn of Africa and Australia it is reasonable to believe that Australia was the best land fall he made before meeting his death in a 'wretched land' far from the Nile.

Thor Heyerdalh did prove that ancient seamen had better boats then originally thought, and being seamen they were able to live at sea for periods longer than planned if need be.
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tnrees
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Joined: 09 Jul 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been told most ancient sailors got very upset if they got out of sight of land - but I believe a canoe load of African fishermen did get blown to Brazil quite recently.
About Arizona - thats a long way inland isnt it?
About Australia - what are the prevailing winds & currents from anywhere the Egyptians would want to go deliberatly? And how far inland is the site?

If I was an ancient Egytian I would either be trying to get home or settling on a nice home like river bank if I did not think I could make it back.
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Osiris II
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Joined: 13 Mar 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You might find this interesting:
http://members.ozemail.com.au/~classblu/egypt/Gilbert.htm

Dr. Gilbert is a world-recognized authority. His primary claim to fame is in the field of Australian history, but he has an interest in Egyptian artifacts. He has been questioned quite frequently concerning the hieroglyphs.
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Neb-Ma'at-Re
Pharaoh


Joined: 09 Dec 2003
Posts: 690

PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is an interesting link Osiris.

I would like to point one thing out that Dr.Gilbert wrote:

"The box on the right is headed by a Duck and Sun title which means 'Son of Re', while the name within the box is unknown but possible could be read as 'Neferankhru'. Interestingly this name is written similar to Khufu's fathers name Sneferu' but has used an Ankh sign instead of a Rolled linen sign. So if we were to believe this inscription we would think that it was of Khufu of the 4th dynasty, unfortunately the 'Son of Re' title was not used until the 5th dynasty and hence this creates a major problem in our believing this text. You should perhaps read the few pages on kings names in pages 267-73 of An Introduction to Egypt by T.G.H. James, which is available in most libraries. To summarise the text cannot be translated although it has several hieroglyphs which could represent names from several different periods of Egyptian history. "

I do believe Dr. Gilbert is incorrect. I am not at home and don't have my books with me but If I remember correctly, Djedefre (Redjedef) the 3rd king of the 4th dynasty, son of Khufu and brother of Khafre was the first to use the Sa Re or Son of Ra title. Now I am not saying the inscription is or is not a forgery but being that Djedefre was pharaoh before Khafre and in the 4th dynasty it makes Dr.Gilberts point on the included Son of Re title being a "major problem in our believing this text" null and void.

I will look into this when I get home.
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