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Hatshepsut

 
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Akhenaten
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Joined: 06 Jul 2002
Posts: 342
Location: Missouri

PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2002 11:15 pm    Post subject: Hatshepsut Reply with quote

Have any of you ever noticed that in some books about Egypt on the timelines it reads in this order:

Thutmose II
Thutmose III
Hatshepsut
Thutmose III
?
It's like they're saying that Thutmose III was a Pharaoh twice! For those two years that Thutmose III ruled before Hatshepsut took over, Egypt would have pretty much been ruled by the Vizier's and high officials, right? Since Thutmose III was still young and supposedly incompetent for the job?

-Akhenaten- Cool
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xjames66
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2002 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tuthmosis II reigned for a about 7 years. Following Pharaoh's untimely death, the kingship passed to a child named Tuthmosis III.
However, this child was not the son of Tuthmosis II chief wife (Hatshepsut),
but of a lesser wife named Isis.
What semes to have happened was this.
At the death of TuthmosisII the reins of power passed not to the designated child-heir, Tuthmosis III, but to Hatshepsut herself.
Because Tuthmosis III was a child, this was perfectly proper.
Hatshepsut, however, was greedy for power and within a short time
SHE had adopted a formal pharaonic titulary and regalia, going on to rule
as senior partner in a unequal period of co-rule.
This is why it can get a bit confusing.

xjames66
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Akhenaten
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2002 3:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ahhhhh..... Okay. Thanks Very Happy

-Akhenaten- Rolling Eyes
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isisangel
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Joined: 05 Oct 2002
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2002 7:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Hatshepsut Reply with quote

[quote="Akhenaten"]Have any of you ever noticed that in some books about Egypt on the timelines it reads in this order:

Thutmose II
Thutmose III
Hatshepsut
Thutmose III
?
It's like they're saying that Thutmose III was a Pharaoh twice! For those two years that Thutmose III ruled before Hatshepsut took over, Egypt would have pretty much been ruled by the Vizier's and high officials, right? Since Thutmose III was still young and supposedly incompetent for the job?

-Akhenaten- Cool[/quote]


Hey i was wondering the same thing, so thanks to the person james i think it is that helped clear that up!
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Detective_CB
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2003 1:36 am    Post subject: Re: Hatshepsut Reply with quote

Isn't Hatshepsut the first queen pharoh? Confused
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Akhenaten
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2003 4:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as I know she was. There was a queen in the 12th Dynasty, I believe, that held a high rant, but I think it was Co-regent and not actually Pharaoh
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Dark_Meryetamun_28
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Joined: 22 Nov 2002
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Location: In the throne of Nephthys

PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2003 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

She may have been the first, but maybe there was another. They Egyptians might have defaced her monuments, too. They might have been thorough with another woman pharaoh. Or maybe a woman rose to power, but not long enough for there to be record of it. I guess we'll never know! Confused
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Kiya
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Joined: 25 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2003 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No Hatshepsut wasn't the first. There were four more before her but there is confusion around the first two who may have been regents. Anyone who wants more info on these women let me know.

Merneith - Dynasty 1 Pharaoh/regent
Khentkawes - Dynasty 4/5 Pharaoh/Regent
Nitocris - Dynasty 6 Pharaoh
Sobeknefru - Dynasty 12 Pharaoh
Hatshepsut - Dynasty 18 Pharaoh/Co ruler with Tuthmosis technically.
Twoseret - Dynasty 19 Pharaoh

Of course there are tonnes more if you count all the female pharaohs of the Ptolemaic Dynasty of course. This is another interest of mine so anyone who wants to know about the Cleopatras of the Ptolemaic line, I'm ya gal:-)
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Dark_Meryetamun_28
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2003 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oh wow.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2003 4:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why did she have to speak to the gods for?
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bel
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Joined: 25 May 2003
Posts: 501

PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 3:54 am    Post subject: Speaking to the Gods Reply with quote

is the same as prayer.
Recognizing the spirit housed
within our physical shell,
we can allow the ego to drop
and assume the mask.
See behind the veil so to speak.
magic
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Sitamun
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Joined: 03 Feb 2004
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2004 4:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't say Hatshepsut was greedy for power. I think she did what she had to do to protect her family interest in the throne of Egypt.
The reason you see Thutmose 3 name twice is because, she co reign with Thutmose 3. It was far more like to protect the throne for him from possible usurp to the throne.
To see this better lets look at Thutmose 3 and Hatshepsut bloodline to the throne. Since his mother was a mere concubine (her name was Aset), his father Thutmose 2. Thutmose 2's mother was a non-royal named Mutnotret. His father was Thutmose I was a General in the army and not of royal blood either but was adopted by Amenhotep 1 who died childless. Thutmose 1 did marry the sister or daughter or the half sister of Pharaoh Ahmose (he was the king before Amenhotep1). This means the grandmother of Hatshepsut was none of than the Great Wife Nefertiti-Ahmose.
It is likely there were male relatives of Hatshepsut or of Pharaoh Amenhotep I family Amenhotep 1 that felt they held more of the royal blood than Thutmose 3. Since he was her beloved father's only grandson and Hatshepsut had a single daughter it was in the best interest for Hatshepsut family to have a peaceful co-rulership between her and Thutmose3. Hatshepsut always depicted her nephew, Thutmose 3, as her co-ruler on monuments, so he was not displaced from the throne. Hatshepsut also had the full support of the Priest of Amun and government officials.
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Neb-Ma'at-Re
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2004 5:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
It is likely there were male relatives of Hatshepsut or of Pharaoh Amenhotep I family Amenhotep 1 that felt they held more of the royal blood than Thutmose 3. Since he was her beloved father's only grandson and Hatshepsut had a single daughter it was in the best interest for Hatshepsut family to have a peaceful co-rulership between her and Thutmose3.


Then why concoct the whole 'Divine Birth' and self coronation ploy if she intended to have a peaceful "co-rulership"?

Quote:
Hatshepsut always depicted her nephew, Thutmose 3, as her co-ruler on monuments, so he was not displaced from the throne.


This is simply not true. Although the Red Chapel at Karnak shows both Hatshepsut and Thutmoses III (Men-Kheper-Re) carved on it's walls it is believed that she had died prior to its completion and Thutmosis III finished it.

Thutmoses III's name or image is not present at Djeser-Djeseru (dier el bahri).

Thutmoses III's name is not present on any of the sides of the two obelisks Hatshepsut erected at Karnak temple:





Thutmoses III's name is not present on the Barque shrine at Luxor temple

Thutmoses III's name was carved over Hatshepsut's in MedinetHabu (as well as many other places) and was not originally carved showing a co-regency by Hatshepsut.


And even more importantly, the temples at Speos Artemidos / Beni Hassan show another coronation scene of Hatshepsut by Amun, once again without mention of Thutmoses III:



"Among others Fairman and Grdseloff (JEA 33, 1947) have published the corresponding text of the proclamation of Hatshesput by Amun (see below). However, they have tried to give what they believed was the original version of Hatshepsut - although in this and all other scenes on the south wall the royal figure is male and all cartouches of Maat-ka-Ra (Hatshepsut) have been usurped by Men-maat-Ra (Sethi I) "
http://www.maat-ka-ra.de/english/bauwerke/speos_artemidos/speos_artemidos.htm

[/b]
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bel
Pharaoh


Joined: 25 May 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2004 6:38 pm    Post subject: Hatshepsut's right's Reply with quote

This makes for an intersting read.

http://www.bibarch.com/Chronology/Exodus/Hathseptsut.htm

Thutmose III was a little Napoleon. This was his game unlike his half
sister Hatshepsut whom ruled through peace.

Peace out,
Belinda
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