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Was Moses Akhenaten?
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Senetseshat
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Joined: 07 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The name Moses could also derive from the Hebrew verb "Masha" (to draw out). In Exodus 2:10, Pharaohs daughter states that she gave him his name "Because I drew him out of the water".

I also consider it unlikely that Moses and Akhenaten were one and the same. I also agree that the exodus was "sexed-up" a bit as time passed and was probably not a major event in Egyptian history.

The connection is partly because Manetho described a priest named Osarseph (Moses?) who apparently took control while the pharaoh (Seti) and his son fled egypt. The son returned 13 years later and restored the gods. Josephus says that Manetho linked Akhenaten and Osarseph, and others then comapred the story to Moses and the exodus.

Clearly this makes little sense as Seti and Ramesses were later, and Seti did not flee Egypt with his son. However, I think Freud was influenced by this in making his unwise statements about Akhenaten.

Incidentally, I recently read an imaginitive theory linking Nefertiti with Jezebel. According to this tale, she was married to King Ahab (allegedly Labayu of the Armarna letters) and set up with Akhenaten causing him to reject the old gods and worship baal and astarte (redefined as the aten). However, she fell from grace and fled egypt only to be murdered by Horemheb (allegedly the biblical Jehu). Of course, Jezebel lived some time after the exodus so this only muddies the waters.

I have started a page on the different pharaohs who have been labelled as the pharaoh of the exodus and comments would be appreciated


http://www.ancientegyptonline.co.uk/exodus.html
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 2:44 pm    Post subject: Advertisement

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tnrees
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is it possible moses was originaly Jehovamosse/yahwehmosse or similar & later it became forbidden to use the name of god so the 1st part of his name was dropped?
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Senetseshat
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moses could certainly be an abreviation of a longer name, but I have not seen any evidence one way or the other to confirm whetehr the name Jehovamosse (or similar) was used. It would be a strange mixture of egyptian and hewbrew, but I don't suppose that is conclusive.

I also read somewhere that it was considered blasphemous to speak the name of YHWH, can anyone confirm this? If so, it was probably another name for god which was the prefix (perhaps el, or elohim?).
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BelovedofWa'Enre
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe I have heard that, or something bordering along those lines....

I have heard heresay about Moses being a play off of the Egyptian word 'mose'....(Son..)

And I cannot remember if I posted on this thread....So, I believe it to be possible....As I believe almost anything in this era to be possible....Toodle-pip!!! Very Happy
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adleer
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 3:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is no strong evidence but this article may be talk about this http://famouspharaohs.blogspot.com/2007/10/ankhenaten-13501349-1334-b.html
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kozzol
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have read through this thread with great interest as it is a subject close to my heart and one I have been researching for many years.

It is believed by some that Amonhotep III had another son called Thutmose, who was his eldest son and heir to the throne.


Thutmoses amongst other things was the High Priest at the temple of Ra in Heliopolis, but for unknown reasons disappeared in the latter part of his fathers reign.

If moses was the priest depicted in Manetho's Aegyptiaca then they both fit the profile as they were both servitors at the temple of Ra in Helioplis, so they could be one and the same person, which would make more sense than Thutmose younger brother Akhenaten being moses.
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Horus
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi kozzol , i believe that Maneto mention Moses as a leader of plague group wich was disband from Egypt , however these people some how, manage to hold or make town of their own, leather they conquerd Egypt whit the help of Hyksos , so if we lay on Maneto , Moses have to be lived somewhere around the very beginning of fifteen dynasty.I was read that in Jan Assmann "Moses the egyptian" everyone can check it, for more accurately information.
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kozzol
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you Horus for pointing this out and I have actually taken this into account during my research. i dont take all the material we have at hand on face value especially when it talks about dynasties and dates.

I try to look at a bigger picture as if it is a jig-saw and put the pieces together as there is always some truths behind it all.

By the way, was in Bulgaria several months ago, very nice country and people.
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Horus
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's funny, now that you mention it i think that i never meet a real true walking english people Laughing , well i plan to visit London next summer , i would love to visit london museums.
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Osiris II
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Amenhotep's elder son, Thutmose, was supposed to be his heir, but evidently he died before he could become Pharaoh, and Amenhotep IV (Akhnaten), who was AIII's second son, came to the throne.
Thutmose didn't :disappear", in fact, his tomb has been located. It's true that he was a priest. Evidently, he was fairly young when he died--a fact not that unusual in AE.
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kozzol
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If my information is correct, Thutmose tomb was found in the early 19 century by the explorer Giovanni Belzoni at the far end of the valley of the kings.

As we already know, Royal tombs were prepared while the person was still alive and only the final funerary decorations were added after death.

The tomb was finished but the illustrations depicting the owners funeral and mummification were absent, leaving the impression that the tomb was not used.

Osiris wrote

Quote:
....Thutmose didn't :disappear", in fact, his tomb has been located...


If you can throw more light on this, I would appreciate it as I can then close my line of research on Thutmose.
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Osiris II
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The illustration of the tomb did not occur after death, but was part of the original digging and decorating of the tomb. The most notable exception was that of Tutanhkamen, which, because of his early death, was a tomb meant for someone else originally, and converted to a royal tomb. In that case, the illustrations , such as they were, were painted after death. The haste used in preparing that tomb shows quite clearly, with no inscriptions or paintings in any part of the tomb other than the first chamber.

The Crown Prince Thutmose (or, more accurately, Djhutmose) was the eldest son of pharaoh Amenhotep III and Queen Tiye, who lived during the Eighteenth dynasty of Egypt . Prince Thutmose served as a priest of Ptah in ancient Memphis[1]. His full royal titles are given in the sarcophagus of his pet cat: "Crown Prince, Overseer of the Priests of Upper and Lower Egypt, High Priest of Ptah in Memphis and Sm-priest (of Ptah)."[2] A small schist statuette of the prince as a miller is in the Louvre Museum "while a recumbent mummiform figure [of the Prince] is in Berlin."[3] Prince Thutmose is best remembered for the limestone sarcophagus of his cat, Ta-miu (she-cat), now in the Cairo Museum.[4] The schist statuette of Thutmose is inscribed on three sides with this text:

"(right)...the king's son the sem-priest Djhutmose; (left) I am the servant of this noble god, his miller; (front) Incense for the Ennead of the western necropolis."[5]

The cat sarcophagus of Prince Thutmose, conclusively establishes that he was indeed the eldest son of Amenhotep III since it provides his then current title of 'Crown Prince.'[6] Thutmose is also attested by a total of 7 pairs of calcite and pottery vases in the Louvre.[7] Prince Thutmose disappears from the public records and appears to have died some time during the third decade, fairly late, of Amenhotep III's kingship.[8] His younger brother Amenhotep IV, better known as Akhenaten, succeeded to the throne instead.

Although many of his burial goods have been found, the actual site of Thutmose' tomb is not known, although, with his strong ties to Memphis, the tomb is tought to be located in Saqqara.
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Osiris II
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 12:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There seems to be 2 lines of information on the tomb of Thutmose.
I'm sure that I have read that it had been located, but the article above says it has not, only his grave-goods have been identified, suggesting that the tomb has been robbed.
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