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Thera and Atlantis

 
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Fernarld Harrison
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 7:15 am    Post subject: Thera and Atlantis Reply with quote

When it comes to Atlantis, I'm with Plato. I read on this forum that Homer invented Atlantis. Is there evidence for that? According to Plato's dialogues, the Egyptians were the first to know about Atlantis, or something along those lines. Well here are the similarities between Thera (Ancient Santorini) and Atlantis:

Evidence of technological advancements: Pipes with running water and water closets were found at the site of Akrotiri on Santorini, they were the oldest such utilities discovered. Descriptions of Atlantis describe Atlantis as having dual pipes with hot and cold running water as well as advanced architecture.

The layout of the Akrotiri find closely resembles Plato's description of the city of Atlantis.

"Now in this island of Atlantis there was a great and wonderful empire which had rule over island and several others"- Plato. The ancient civilization on Thera did have control of several of the islands around it.

According to Plato, Atlantis had a circular shape. Santorini also has a circular shape. In the centre of the sunken area of Santorini (covered in water) is a central cone. According to Plato's dialogues, Atlantis had a central hill where the palace was.

The Islad of Thera was mostly destroyed by a volcanic eruption around 1500 B.C. One theory for the destruction of Atlantis is that a volcanic eruption caused tsunamis 900 years before Solon spoke to the Egyptian priests, around 1500 B.C.

According to Plato's dialogues, he describes Atlantis as a sea-faring and peaceful civilization before it fell into corruption. Archaeological evidence of Minoan culture on Santorini points to the lack of weapons, aswell as there being no warfare depicted in their artwork.

The Thera eruption left a huge crater in the centre of the island. Whatever was in the middle is know on the ocean floor. This supports the "sunken city" story.

The ritual of bull-jumping commonly depicted in Minoan artwork parallels stories told by Egyptian priests (in the legend) that describe the inhabitants of Keftiu (a city in Atlantis [possibly Akrotiri]) as taking part in ritual bull-jumping and sacrifice.
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tnrees
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If someone misread the 100 sign as a 1000 the dates and sizes fit quite well.
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Fernarld Harrison
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know Very Happy that's the only down side... well hopefully Solon did misinterpret the Egyptian hieroglyph.
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Elise
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fernald, I don't understand what you mean when you say you 're with Plato...According to him, Atlantis was located beyond "the Pillars Of Hercules". Thera is not.
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tnrees
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have heard someone say there might have been more than 1 set of pilars. Also He might have just thought there is no room for somewhere that big in the the Mediterranean so it must be beyond Gibraltar .
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Elise
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh but aren't you all underestimating him now? This is Plato we 're talking about...Not sure if he were an actual member of the Greek Mystery Schools but if you read some of his works, it becomes obvious the man was some kind of an Initiate. I don't see how he could have been so naive(regarding dates, locations of The Pillars etc).
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tnrees
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where did he get his information from? I believe very few non Egyptians (and not many Egyptians) could read Egyptian.
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Fernarld Harrison
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 5:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1. Plato got the information from Solon, who had travelled to Egypt.
2. It is always possible that even if Solon couldn't speak Egyptian, maybe the priest could speak Greek.
3. Yes, there is more than one location for the Pillars of Hercules. According to modern research the Straight of Gibiltrar (Is that how it's spelt?) is only one of many possible places, so we may never know which Pillars of Hercules Plato was talking about. But of course now we have to research what exactly he meant by Pillars of Hercules in ancient Greek terms.
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Elise
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I stand corrected on the Pillars issue. I spent the whole of yesterday doing some research and apparently it is true, there was more than one location for them. But as Fernald said, the point is where Plato and his audience would have considered the real Pillars to be. *Unless* he was aware of the different locations and he didn't bother to define in order to confuse the enemy- so to speak.

Still, I think we can safely discard the Thera connection given Plato was in Athens, addressing mainly an Athenian audience and Thera/Santorini is only a few nautical miles to the south of Athens. No room for Pillars in between.

But I have to say, I remain resolute on the date issue.
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Fernarld Harrison
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I understand where you are coming from in saying that since Plato was in Athens he would be addressing and Athenian audience Elise. But that is the very reason that Plato would have based his Atlantis story on the Thera eruption. Evidence suggests that in his dialogues, Critias and Timaeus, Plato was boasting about the greatness of Athens and its people and so he would not have based it on any Greek places. Hope I haven't misunderstood Very Happy . As for there being no room for the Pillars being between Athens and Thera there is another theory that Plato's pillars may have been at Tunisia and Sicilly. Hence Thera would be well beyond that. So that still gives Thera a fighting chance at being Atlantis. And besides, where else in the Mediterranean matches Plato's account so precisely. We can pretty much rule out the Atlantic ocean because Solon got the story from the Egyptians and they never travelled to the Atlantic, let alone traded with anyone there (correct me if I'm wrong).
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Elise
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fernarld Harrison wrote:
I understand where you are coming from in saying that since Plato was in Athens he would be addressing and Athenian audience Elise. But that is the very reason that Plato would have based his Atlantis story on the Thera eruption. Evidence suggests that in his dialogues, Critias and Timaeus, Plato was boasting about the greatness of Athens and its people and so he would not have based it on any Greek places.


I 'm sorry Fernald, I don't quite understand you. Thera/Santorini is an island in the Aegean. If it was indeed Atlantis, Plato would have made a big deal out of it because that in itself would raise even more the profile of Greece. Also, I 'm not sure in which dialogue, maybe in both, Plato relates the hostility between the Athenians and the Atlanteans. I believe he mentiona a battle/war where Athenians prevailed?


Quote:

As for there being no room for the Pillars being between Athens and Thera there is another theory that Plato's pillars may have been at Tunisia and Sicilly. Hence Thera would be well beyond that.


Only if Plato was writing from North Africa. But he was writing from Athens so it doesn't make sense he would say "beyond" when the Pillars were in the opposite direction.
Quote:


And besides, where else in the Mediterranean matches Plato's account so precisely. We can pretty much rule out the Atlantic ocean because Solon got the story from the Egyptians and they never travelled to the Atlantic, let alone traded with anyone there (correct me if I'm wrong).


But the priest mentioned all this happened 9,000 years before Solon's time. Who knows what the Egyptians were up to back then...
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Fernarld Harrison
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I 'm sorry Fernald, I don't quite understand you. Thera/Santorini is an island in the Aegean. If it was indeed Atlantis, Plato would have made a big deal out of it because that in itself would raise even more the profile of Greece. Also, I 'm not sure in which dialogue, maybe in both, Plato relates the hostility between the Athenians and the Atlanteans. I believe he mentiona a battle/war where Athenians prevailed?
Lol, that's what I meant, sorry about the confusion.
Quote:
Only if Plato was writing from North Africa. But he was writing from Athens so it doesn't make sense he would say "beyond" when the Pillars were in the opposite direction.
Oh Touch'e... lol
Quote:
But the priest mentioned all this happened 9,000 years before Solon's time. Who knows what the Egyptians were up to back then...
I'm sure that you are familiar with the theory that Solon misinterprited the dates. Thanks. Very Happy
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tnrees
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To say anything definate we need to know a lot of things e.g. was the Egyptian
a) reading from a document
b) telling Solon about something he once read a few years back
c) making up a story to fool the annoying foreigner
Even it was a) - and it was refering to Thera - we need to know how soon after the event the document was written and how accuratly it recorded the facts -Also I do not think the Egyptians were that interested in foreigners .
So unless we find the original record it is just speculation.
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Elise
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Fernarld Harrison"]
Quote:
I'm sure that you are familiar with the theory that Solon misinterprited the dates.


Yes, I am. But ain't that a condescending view? Solon was considered one of the Seven Sages of Greece. i don't see how he could have made such a mistake.
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tnrees
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If he did not read Egyptian he would have to rely on what he was told.
Even if he could read Egyptian the document (or the source of the document) might have used splodge as the hieroglyph for 100 causing confusion.
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