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Manetho's God list / Theory

 
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rich
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Joined: 09 May 2005
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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2005 6:19 pm    Post subject: Manetho's God list / Theory Reply with quote

http://www.atlantisquest.com/Manetho.html

Horus line:

TURIN PAPYRUS
Ptah
Ra
Su - Shu
Seb - Geb
Osiris
Set - Seth
Horus (over the Horizon?)(The Elder?)
Thoth
Ma - Mestha / Amset
Horus - Quebsenuf (I previously guessed incorrectly as Tuamatef)

ps... anybody know the son of Amset / Mestha?


Last edited by rich on Wed May 18, 2005 10:02 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Psusennes I
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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2005 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What on earth is this supposed to mean? Seb and Geb are just caused by innacurate reading of the Geb-goose as the Sa-duck, and Duamutef and Horus are completely different Gods. Thoth was the last king of the heavens, whilst Horus was the last king of the earth. I don't really understand what the author was getting at.
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rich
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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Horus IS the most confusing of All the Egyptian Gods. With multiple different Gods/people being merged.

I don't have a feel for him yet.

I know of at least 3 different Horus Gods... Horus Over the Horizon, Horus the Elder, and Horus the Younger... 3 generations of Horus(?)... sorta, maybe.

Horus Over the Horizon seems to be the brother of Seth and Osiris.

The Symbol/Sign for Amset looks like a human. Amset is a possibilty as Horus the Elder. You can also argue that Horus the Elder is the same as Horus over the Horizon.

The Son of Osiris and Nepthys is called Horus(Heru). After the death of Osiris, Heru is adopted by Horus Over the Horizon and Isis. Isis and Horus over the Horizon have three sons... plus an adopted son.

I believe Tuamatef(sign of the jackal)(Anubis) is called Heru - Horus the younger.

I'd be willing to consider the son of Amset/Mestha ... as the second horus on the list... I've never found any evidence that Amset had a son. Amset was married to a scorpion goddess, Ta Bitjet(Qa Hedjet?).

Or maybe even Quebsenuf(Sign of the falcon) is the second Horus on the list... anybody got a wife and son for him?

On the palermo stone, Seb is Keb.... is Keb also different than Geb? A goose and a duck look pretty similar. Very interesting.
http://www.egyptianmyths.net/geb.htm

Here is some info on Horus...
http://www.egyptianmyths.net/horus.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horus


Last edited by rich on Wed May 18, 2005 10:05 pm; edited 4 times in total
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Psusennes I
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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Horus is complicated, I agree, but in the Middle and Later periods of Egyptian history the different Horuses were assimilated into 'Harseis', a generic Horus who encompassed all the old Horuses. For example in the Pyramid Texts it is Horus the Elder who battles and defeats Seth, but later Horus the Elder fell into obscurity and was assilated by Harseis.
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rich
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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting Story... I have Nefertum as the son of Anubis / Tuamatef ... if this helps anybody.
http://nefertiti.iwebland.com/texts/shabaka_stone.htm
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rich
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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Psusennes,
You've convinced me that the second horus on the list can not be Tuamatef...let's go with Quebsenuf... with the sign of the Falcon as the second horus on the list.
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rich
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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2005 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's go with nekhebet as the wife of Quebsenuf....
Tuamatef(jackal) marrying Buto(Wadjet)(Cobra Goddess)(daughter of Heret-Hor)

http://www.sacred-texts.com/egy/leg/leg07.htm

This picture is definitely not Isis... you can see a little vulture on the COW head-piece ....

A conventional argument would be that the picture of the girl is Hathor with the cow headpiece.... but I believe a Cow headpiece with a Vulture is Nekhebet.
http://www.suziemanley.com/november/hathor.htm
(picture of hathor, buto, nekhebet)(old, younger, youngest)

The Hippopotomus/Boar Fiend is Seth
Thoth is the Ibis
The Crocodile is Den (Father of Buto)
The Horus with the Sun Disk is Horus over the Horizon
The Pharoh hat horus being Quebsenuf...
The Horus riding a ram is Ba / Baandjedet. (Horus of Behutet)
The "Blacksmith" is Tuamatef, before he marries Buto.
The little Jackal is Tuamatef
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rich
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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2005 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll go with Heru as Quebsenuf and
HERU-BEHUTET as Banebdjed

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duamutef
Heiroglyphs: Tuamatef... married to a snake(buto).... daughter nekhebet (they also have a son or son-in-law, Nefertum)(Nefertum succeeds Anubis his wife is Bastet)


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Har-pa-khered
As a child, Horus was called Har-pa-khered ("Horus the child" and called Harpocrates by the Greeks) and was a son of either Osiris and Isis or Banebdjed and Hatmehit. He was depicted as a naked boy with a finger in his mouth, sitting on a lotus with his mother. In this form, he was a fertility god and was depicted with a cornucopia. Har-pa-Khered became very popular during the time of the Roman Empire, when he was depicted riding a goose or ram (note Banebdjetet, his father, was a ram god).

Sa(Goose) - son of Banebdjed and Hatmehit


Last edited by rich on Thu May 19, 2005 10:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
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maatkara
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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2005 10:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a very nice text about deities "the Complete Gods and Goddesses", by Richard Wilkinson....
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rich
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2005 12:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does the book have a family tree?

The mythology is out there to create one... just mis-interpretations get in the way. No words like "in-law"... sister-in-law, son-in-law, etc...
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maatkara
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2005 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

that book is perfect and perfectly explains how everything works .

You will see that gods can change from one town to another, from period to period and that is not always possible to drawn a line....youknow what I mean?

of course AE didn't give importance to "sister-in-law" or "mother-in-law"....and still many important gods are not completly defined..

Lokk for that book, it's a good help for you to understand.
It is edited by the American University in Cairo Press and first edited just few years ago... Wink
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