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Arguing with Claude II .....
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Claude II
Egyptian Architect


Joined: 13 Apr 2005
Posts: 112
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 8:59 am    Post subject: Arguing with Claude II ..... Reply with quote

Well this topic should be popular Wink

To continue the debate on bringing the key relics back home to Egypt
and my strongly support for Dr. Zahi Hawass and his quest to assemble
those treasures back home in Egypt where they belong.

Read through the topic Arguing with Hawass... and continue
the debate here Cool

And read Mr. Aboul Gheit addresses the UN
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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 8:59 am    Post subject: Advertisement

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Si-amun
Pharaoh


Joined: 02 Jul 2004
Posts: 947
Location: London, England

PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, i think it is one thing to say that key relics should be returned to Egypt but if you want to say that you are doing it to "maintain" what the Pharaohs had hoped for then I think you are being highly hypocritical. Do you beleive that every object found in Tutankhamuns tomb should be put back in it and the tomb resealed? Do you think that nobody should be able to enter the precinct of Karnak, or that all Egyptologists in tomb excavations should be impaled for grave robbery? That, I am afraid, would be what the Pharaohs would have wanted so if you want to make a point like that I suggest you think it through a bit more thoroughly.
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the_tutness_is_here
Pharaoh


Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 574
Location: The palace of Tutness!

PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shocked *Ding Ding!* It's tiiiime for round three of Si-amun VS. Claude II !! Who will win?!!? Make your bets here to Tutness!! Laughing Wink

Tut's eyes were Purple, and that's that!! Wink Laughing Sorry, I just couldn't resist!! lol

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maatkara
Pharaoh


Joined: 21 Oct 2004
Posts: 705
Location: Valle d'Aosta- Italy

PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 11:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Claude,
why didn't you turn the title of this topic in "Discussing with Claude" instead of Arguing???
You should stop thinking that you have to FIGHT us!....that's your problem here! Rolling Eyes
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the_tutness_is_here
Pharaoh


Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 574
Location: The palace of Tutness!

PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

.....*Hugs Maatkara* You're my new best friend, lol Wink

Maybe YOU can help me bring peace to this forum...it's like...a wrestling match... Shocked It gets scary, sometimes... Sad ..... Laughing Wink I should bring in people who can be "Peacemakers" in this forum...I NEED REFEREES!! Very Happy Laughing Wink

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maatkara
Pharaoh


Joined: 21 Oct 2004
Posts: 705
Location: Valle d'Aosta- Italy

PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

....ehehehehh...I wish I could show you my happy face now! Laughing

*smack!* ....a big kiss for you! Laughing Laughing Laughing
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the_tutness_is_here
Pharaoh


Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 574
Location: The palace of Tutness!

PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2005 12:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

*Blush* Ummm....Thanks!! Laughing Laughing Very Happy ^_^; I didn't really expect that, but hey! Awesome! I certainly feel loved!! Woohoo! *Dances* Hehehehe!! Wink Very Happy
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kmt_sesh
Prince/Princess


Joined: 14 May 2005
Posts: 350
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2005 1:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey, tutness and maatkara, dial it down a notch, you two! I'm getting all sweaty here reading this stuff. Surprised

However Claude II's topic is approached, it's relevant and worth discussing...in a civil manner. With relics of great value like the Rosetta Stone in the British Museum and the bust of Nefertiti in Berlin, Egypt does in fact have some legal stance because the objects were simply taken. The problem is, it was so long ago and in a time when the Egyptian government--such as it was--was in fact far more interested in the money of wealthy Westerners than it was in its own antiquities. It's a muddled issue at best and one that is not likely ever to be resolved for numerous precious artifacts scattered across the world. Neither the Rosetta Stone nor the Nefertiti bust will likely ever be returned to Egypt. They have been in the keeping of their respective institutions so long that they have become a part of those countries' heritage.

It cannot be argued that Egypt has been exploited for hundreds of years by the greed and ambitions of Westerners. For all of you interested in this topic, I have to recommend Brian Fagan's book The Rape fo the Nile (Westview Press, 2004). You'll learn that Egypt has had antiquities laws in place for a very long time, but no one paid them much attention; the French were in charge of Egypt's antiquities organization even when Britain controlled the country, and were known to sell valuable artifacts under the table to the highest bidders.

Best of all is Fagan's biographies of Egyptology's early giants, like Belzoni and Petrie. I've seen good ol' Wallace Budge discussed much here at KingTutOne, many voices raised in his favor and many against. His writings are much outdated by this point and some of his hieroglyphic work rather sloppy, but he was considered great in his time. What I hadn't known until reading Fagan's book is that Budge was also one of the worst tomb robbers of them all!

Anyway, none of us ever needs to worry that Egypt will one day somehow get all of its antiquities back from the museums of the world. It would be a monumental overstatement even to suggest that the Egyptian government would want to do so. They could not and would not. Egypt is a very poor country, for one thing, and to strip away its advertising from all over the world would devestate that country beyond description--and the museums with ancient Egypt exhibits are advertising, never doubt that. Museum exhibits are how practically all of our greatest Egyptologists got inspired in the first place, and countless people visit Egypt to see the real thing for themselves after having sampled numerous exhibits. Egypt relies on its tourism, plain and simple.

So if the Egyptian government ever closes a tomb or a site, it's to preserve and conserve that site...not to shut it off forever from public access. I'm a docent at the Field Museum in Chicago, and we have a wonderful ancient Egypt exhibit. Ours is representative of most others in this argument. Hawass himself, as well as others from the SCA, has toured our exhibit and desires nothing to be returned, even though we have many valuable objects in our collection.

Don't worry about it. Check out a book at the library about ancient Egypt, or buy one at Amazon, or visit a museum exhibit this weekend...that's what the Egyptian government wants you to do. The objects it wants returned are a scant minority of the total. Wink
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the_tutness_is_here
Pharaoh


Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 574
Location: The palace of Tutness!

PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2005 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kmt has restored some sort of order!! We've found our referee, lol!! Laughing Wink It's the same here in Florida ( U.S.A), we also rely on tourism for money. That's why we have theme parks like Disney World, Universal studios, etc. Florida's economy depends on it, and the same goes for Egypt, except that they don't have rollar coasters going around the Giza pyramids.... Shocked ..... Laughing That'd be amusing to see.
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kmt_sesh
Prince/Princess


Joined: 14 May 2005
Posts: 350
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2005 12:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
...and the same goes for Egypt, except that they don't have rollar coasters going around the Giza pyramids.... ..... That'd be amusing to see.


Oh goodness, tutness, keep that one to yourself! If word spreads, next thing you know, we'll see Hawass in a clown suit advertising the new Giza Amusement Park with those rollercoasters whizzing around the pyramids and a monster water slide that shoots you out the mouth of the Great Sphinx and into a shimmering blue pool below.

I can just see it now. They'd call it something like Pharaoh's Fantasialand.
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maatkara
Pharaoh


Joined: 21 Oct 2004
Posts: 705
Location: Valle d'Aosta- Italy

PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2005 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crying or Very sad that would be ....HORRIBLE!... Evil or Very Mad
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Si-amun
Pharaoh


Joined: 02 Jul 2004
Posts: 947
Location: London, England

PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2005 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes.... but I would love to see Hawas in a clown suit! lol
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the_tutness_is_here
Pharaoh


Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 574
Location: The palace of Tutness!

PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2005 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It would be a wonder to see Dr. Hawass in a clown suit!! Laughing Actually, heaven forbid, that word SHOULD spread, kmt! I think that Hawass--with his attitude sometimes--is best suited for the role of the clown. Laughing Laughing Wink I mean not to offend, but still, that WOULD be a sight to behold....I can't imagine the Great Sphinx as a water slide... Shocked .... Laughing
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Claude II
Egyptian Architect


Joined: 13 Apr 2005
Posts: 112
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2005 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well as you can see I have been waiting for some time to see
what you all have to say abut the issue of bringing Egyptian
historic treasures back home to Egypt Confused And what are you all doing???
Talking abut Hawass turning the Giza in to a Disneyland.....!!!!!

This shows how childish you are... and if this is the attitude Dr. Hawass
has to meet when he discuss this issue with your countries I surely
understand him. Who could have a conversation with a bunch of kids Question

And you all are dreaming of becoming Egyptologist,,,, Ha ha you are dreaming
of becoming Tomb Robbers and to be famous for your self.
You should be a shame have you no respect for the Old Pharaohs
and what they stood for.

Read the "Code of Ethics" Adopted in the UN 2000

International Code of Ethics
for Dealers in Cultural Property. We call upon the
international community to continue to work to ensure
that all museums, dealers and relevant cultural and
trade institutions respect that Code. We would like to
emphasize that States are responsible for ensuring the
implementation of the International Code of Ethics;
governmental cultural institutions must respect the
rules and principles laid down therein.


The rest you can find on the internet if you just take a look
Wink

Do you think this is for Egypt best:

“About 90% of all visitors to the British Museum come specifically to see
the Egyptian Section, and the Rosetta Stone in particular”, he confirmed
in an interview in his office at the museum. However, he admitted that
only 4% of the estimated 110,000 objects at the museum are on display.
The rest are stored and classified and only taken out for research, special
exhibitions or conservation work. These objects are only accessible by
appointment.


Where is the Ethics when they are only on a pice of papir
Where are the true love for Egypts ancient History when you all
are just like tomb robbers. If you are the generation to come
then I am sure you soon are going to change the Giza to Disneyland
But it want be Hawass....
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Si-amun
Pharaoh


Joined: 02 Jul 2004
Posts: 947
Location: London, England

PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2005 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Christ! *rolls eyes*
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