Ancient Egyptian Forum

Tadukhipa · Posted: Wed May 07, 2003 12:49 am Post subject: Queen Tiye

That Queen Tiye's pretty cool, eh? She's one of my favorite people in the Amarna. Seems like a pretty strong lady. She's my hero and ya... I'm just trying to start a discussion (things have been kinda slow here...)
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Akhenaten · Posted: Fri May 09, 2003 9:20 pm Post subject:

Yes, she is very interesting. Has anyone ever looked into her background? I heard she was Nubian, has anyone else? Because in artwork of her. she looks African more than Egyptian. I know that the art style may have just show her that way, but why would you want to Queen to like like someone from another country if she wasn't?
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Tadukhipa · Posted: Tue May 13, 2003 4:19 am Post subject:

Ya, in that one wooden head she's shown pretty dark. I think in some of the pieces during Amenhotep III's reign though she's shown pretty traditionally. The Amarna art either showed things a lot more or a lot less realistic than they were. Personally I think that she had some African heritage.

The only thing though, if Aye was her brother, wouldn't he be equally as dark? And wouldn't Nefertiti (if she was his daughter) have not been as pale as she was in the bust in Berlin? This could boil down to the infamous "what race were the ancient Egyptians?" debate.

But either way, even if Tiye wasn't quite as common as the first peasants thought, she still held a LOT more power than expected from a non-royal woman who was married to someone as strong and powerful as Amenhotep III was.
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Akhenaten · Posted: Thu May 15, 2003 4:26 pm Post subject:

I was thinking... The Egyptians could have very likely been a darker race, after all, many Egyptian men would have taken Nubian wives, right? Thant led me to thinking... If Queen Tye were Nubian, then it would make sense that in Akhenaten's statues (The really big ones used in his temple) he has African features. Everyone thinks that his art style was strange, but really, in most of his statues, maybe he was just portraying himself to look like what he really looked like: African! Just a thought Smile

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Kiya · Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2003 1:18 pm Post subject:

I've not really formed a strong opinion on this but it is interesting. This is what is confusing. She is shown as dark in some of her portarits and the fact that she was made Great Royal Wife has lead some to speculate that theirs was love match. The problem with this is their ages. Despite egyptians marrying young, Amenhotep and Tiy were about 12? when they 'married'. Hardly old enough toi form a romantic attachment. I think there is more to it because there was a royal princess for Amenhotep to marry. Another princess called 'Sitamun', his sister. Why didn't he marry her as was tradition, instead of marrying an unknown nubian of no royal blood. Even if she wasn't Nubian, she was still a commoner.

Meritaton · Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2003 6:25 pm Post subject:

Okay, this one may seem crazy a bit, but there's a theory that Tiye's father Yuya = Joseph from the Bible and the whole monotheim stuff comes from this side of the family. I can't really decide whether to believe this or not... Anyone wants to discuss this theory?

Meritaton · Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2003 6:33 pm Post subject:

Another theory (and I can accept this) is that Amenhotep III actually DID marry his sister Sitamun (who is usually thought to be his eldest daughter by Tiye.) If Sitamun was his sister, and daughter of Thutmose IV, then her mother could have been the Royal heiress Iaret, whose mother's name was Sitamun, too. Maybe Sitamun was too young when Amunhotep became Pharaoh, so they couldn't marry and later she was stood aside for Tiye.
It is also possible that Smenkhkare & Tutankhamen were born in this marriage, so they - as children of a royal heiress - had stronger claims to the throne! This might be the cause of Akhenaten having Smenkhkare as co-regent after their father has died and couldn't support him any more (in case we accept the 12-year co-regency of Amunhotep and Akhenaten).
I read this in an essay by Marshall F. Johnson, which is no more online as far as I know, but I can send it by request.

Kiya · Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2003 1:02 pm Post subject:

Firstly which Joseph are you speaking of? It cannot be Joseph, stepfather to Jesus as this would not happen until about 1300 years later.
Secondly i'm not mixing up my Sitamun's here. Yes we know Amenhotep and Tiy's eldest daughter was called Sitamun but there was definitely a royal sister of Amenhotep's, also called Sitamun, for him to marry. Even if she had been too young it doesn't really change anything. He still could have made her Great Royal Wife while he waited for her to become old enough to consumated the relationship. During this time he could have made Tiy one of his secondry wives, even had children with her. They wouldn't supplant the children of the Great Royal Wife. He had no need to give Tiy this title. I put it in my top three ancient egyptian mysteries along with Who was Tut's father and who was Kiya?

Meritaton · Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2003 7:10 pm Post subject:

Of course I'm not talking about the stepfather of Jesus. Smile

Sorry, I know it could be easily misunderstood. I'm talking about Joseph, the son of Jacob and Rachel, who became a vizier (or something else, a man of great power) in Egypt.
It is really a mystery why did Tiye become Great Royal Wife. I can't think anything else that Amunhotep fell in love with her so much... and she was a strong and determined woman, and women like her usually get what they need.

Kiya · Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2003 3:43 pm Post subject:

Of course, I didn't even think although I have been reading David Rohls I think it's the 'testament' or something. I have all his books and forget which one said what. Anyway, 'the Testament' has parts of it set in a tru historical setting and he places Joseph around the time of one of the Inyotefs (Pre New Kingdom)

Africa · Guest

The ancient Egyptians were black Africans. They just happened to be a lighter shade of black than the Nubians. Everything about the ancient Egyptian culture exudes Africaness.

Black Africans come in different shades of color, depending on ethnic background. For instance, the original Sudanese, the direct descendants of the Nubians, tend to be one of the darkest ethnic groups in Africa. Contrast them with the Fulani people who tend to be lighter skinned Africans with seemingly mixed caucasian/negroid features yet are of pure African origin. Remember too that not all Europeans are pale white caucasians. A typical nordic European is considerably paler than a mediterannean European.

Queen Tiye was not suggestively black, she was. So were the rest before the foreign invasions, i.e., Macedonian, Roman.

Chenoa · Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2003 5:33 am Post subject:

I thought that the founding Egyptions come from west asia.Then the pharaohs had foreign queens

Kiya · Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2003 3:10 pm Post subject:

I've had a thought on why Tiy ended up as Great Royal Wife. It could have been the actions of Amenhotep's mother Mutmwiya. She wasn't the senior queen and was believed to be a foreigner, althpough i'm not sure of this. Perhaps she had a grudge against Sitamun (Sister of Amenhotep III, not to be confused with his daughter), who was the daughter of the Great Royal Wife. When Amenhotep came to the throne, she became King's Mother and was in a position to influenec who her son married, especially as he was so young. She could have arranged the marriage with Tiy.

Guest · Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2003 11:31 pm Post subject:

Here's a great link to the reconstructed face of King Tut. Excellent 3D image in play. It's really cool. Check it out.

http://dsc.discovery.com/anthology/unsolvedhistory/kingtut/face/face.html

Gogha · Guest

Here's a great link to the reconstructed face of King Tut. Excellent 3D image in play. It's really cool. Check it out.

http://dsc.discovery.com/anthology/unsolvedhistory/kingtut/face/face.html