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zahi hawass
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Claude II
Egyptian Architect


Joined: 13 Apr 2005
Posts: 112
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is what we discussed!!!

1. Should the Queen Nefertiti return home to Egypt. (Dr. Hawass quest)

2. Why should she or why not.

My reason to support Dr. Hawass:
The things that belong to a cretin historic event and country should
be placed in that country. This is common among all people
who works with archeology and history.

If there is a problem for doing this a temporary solution is
ok until the problem is fixed.

This answers both questions abowe....

Your reasons to not support Dr. Hawass:

First because you dont like him as a person!
You dont like Cairo Museum
Third Because this relics are important for your country
and people would not be interested in your Museum otherwise
(Please read your own comment in this topic)

Now to the conclusion:

If Dr. Hawass was removed would you support the returning of those relics?
If they build a New Museum or re arranged the Cairo Museum would you support the return of those relics
If you manufactured some replica of this relics and returned the original to Egypt would not the people of your own country still learn abut those relics and ancient Egyptian history??? And they would also learn abut the greatness of your country who preserved and saved those relics that now is finally returned to Egypt where they where found in first place

I hope that this is a little more civilized way of discussion Wink
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Psusennes I
Pharaoh


Joined: 09 Sep 2004
Posts: 913
Location: England

PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I object at your intentional twisting of my words. Here are my untwisted opinions:

My reasons not to support Dr. Hawass:

- He continues to ask for more and more relics back from other countries despite the fact that his museum cannot cope with what it already has. Giving relics to Egypt before she can deal with her would damage Egypts reputation rather than repair them, and an increase the burden on the Cairo museum. By giving more relics to Egypt you ensure that others will be forgotten and pushed aside, destroying valuable pieces of Egypt's history. You should know this.

- Most of the relics owned by other countries are a key part of their history too, and most of them are being expertly restored and researched by the top Archaelogists of those countries. In Egypt they would lie decaying in the dusty rooms of the Cairo Museum, which is already full to bursting, and throws out many objects that it cannot afford to support every year.

-The Cairo Museum lacks, concurrently, a suitable environment for the objects that countries like England and Germany are currently restoring and preserving. Most of the objects in the Cairo museum are stored in containers that pre-date WWII, are unlabeled and kept at temperatures, light-levels and humidites that have been shown to significantly damage the artifacts. This is my main reason for opposing your bid.

The reasons that you have given, are on the large part actually true. I do dislike Hawass intensely, and I believe that if he does truly want the Rosetta stone back then he should eliminate my counter-arguments above first, but improving the Museum of Cairo and so on. I do however, not believe that it is just for you to claim that Egypt is the only reason why anyone ever visits the British museum. Our Museum contains relics recovered from all over the world, many from cultures that have since vanished. [url="http://www.thebritishmuseum.ac.uk/"]Care to visit the official website to see how the British have handled preserving and displaying these objects?[/url]

Anyway. I think we both agree that it is virtual heresy for you to even consider returning any more relics (particularly those as valuable as the Bust of Nefertiti) before Cairo has built a 'new' museum or has the capabilities to store what she already has effectively, and preserve them for future generations. Let Egypt have the replicas until she has upgraded her inferior museum! You probably just want fame.
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Si-amun
Pharaoh


Joined: 02 Jul 2004
Posts: 947
Location: London, England

PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH

I cant take any more of this sodding argument! If I have to post again there may be some colourful language involved, you have been warned!!! lol
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maatkara
Pharaoh


Joined: 21 Oct 2004
Posts: 705
Location: Valle d'Aosta- Italy

PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Si-Amun, I completely agree with you...

we should stop answering this kind guy, at least until he doesn't change his behaviour.
Do you all agree with me?
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Claude II
Egyptian Architect


Joined: 13 Apr 2005
Posts: 112
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This are your words Psusennes I

But it isn't right. If we return the objects that are just as much a part of our history as theirs then everything may as well be returned to its original resting place- and that would just be ridiculous. Museums would be boring and pointless to visit. Everyone would have to fly to other countries to learn about them. You neglect the poor London populace- how would they see Egyptian relics?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just to point out what you are actually saying....

If the stone where a part of your history it would been written in English!
Everyone already has to fly around the world as it is now so for the other
people around the world (And we are many more then you are) it would
be better to see them in their rightful environment but this you will never
agree on

And why would you think that they would put the Rosetta stone in a container??
Its the key to their language probably the most important relic there is

The Cairo Museum have 150 000 artifact shown in the museum and abut 30 000 stored

So you can see I do not put words in anyone's mouth they are written
by you and I just quote you..

Why not just admit its abut money, pride and Dr. Hawass
that's reasons anyone can except they are honest and should be respected

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is how the Rosetta Stone ended up in your Museum

The fall of Alexandria, and the signing of the treaty of capitulation in
September 1801, signalled the end of the French military occupation of
Egypt. Earlier in the year the commander of the French forces, General
Menou had been besieged in Alexandria with a collection of antiquities,
including the Rosetta Stone. The artefacts had been collected by
Napoleon's army in the three years of the occupation. The French
scholars who were studying the antiquities took them from Cairo, which
surrendered in June, to Alexandria for safekeeping. However, under the
terms of the Treaty the French were required to give them up.

So you gained access to it by a country who found it under occupation!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The initial step in creation of the Egyptian Musem in Cairo was taken in 1835
when Mohammed Ali decided to put an end to the indiscriminate looting of
archaelogical sites in Egypt. In time, this led to the setting up off the
Antiquities service and to a permanent collecting of art objects in the capital.

Just some facts abut the Museum and those Muslims that dont care!!!
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Si-amun
Pharaoh


Joined: 02 Jul 2004
Posts: 947
Location: London, England

PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

YAY, at last we have got somewhere, yes thats right, we have progressed back to the beginning of the sodding circle. I am fed up with this stupid twat of a topic. Can we just drop it as I am finding it a pain in the arse to read the same lines of argument coming from you again and again. I cant express how pissed off this is making me, it is pathetic. Stop being such an idiotic twat and get off your soapbox. I am trying to restrain what I am saying here (Psusuennes knows how colourful my language gets when I am angry) but you aren't making it easy. This sodding arse of a topic is getting right on my tits and I am not joking when I say that I am absolutely livid. Either progress from this boring loop or kindly sod off to another forum where your incessant (boring) arguments are actually wanted. More than one member here has expressed anger and resentment over what you are saying, most people would take a hint and shut up, or at least let the subject drop but you REFUSE to do that, showing yourself to be an immature, idiotic debater who cant face the fact that people disagree with them. Do us all a favour and piss off, thank you!
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Claude II
Egyptian Architect


Joined: 13 Apr 2005
Posts: 112
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Si-amun wrote:
YAY, at last we have got somewhere, yes thats right, we have progressed back to the beginning of the sodding circle. I am fed up with this stupid twat of a topic. Can we just drop it as I am finding it a pain in the arse to read the same lines of argument coming from you again and again. I cant express how pissed off this is making me, it is pathetic. Stop being such an idiotic twat and get off your soapbox. I am trying to restrain what I am saying here (Psusuennes knows how colourful my language gets when I am angry) but you aren't making it easy. This sodding arse of a topic is getting right on my tits and I am not joking when I say that I am absolutely livid. Either progress from this boring loop or kindly sod off to another forum where your incessant (boring) arguments are actually wanted. More than one member here has expressed anger and resentment over what you are saying, most people would take a hint and shut up, or at least let the subject drop but you REFUSE to do that, showing yourself to be an immature, idiotic debater who cant face the fact that people disagree with them. Do us all a favour and piss off, thank you!


Now you are going to steam vessel Laughing
But where you not the one that talked abut language, insulting and using
of record words. Personal attacks??? Talk abut stepping in it Wink

Well back to basic. You dont have the courage to stand for your points
and you certainly dont have any?? because all you have to say is
pointless nonsense.. Dust in the rooms, Muslims that dont care and other
insulting things abut the Egyptians. I look at the website of your marvels
museum and there are a few rooms and some pictures Confused No "VR" to see
this great Museum for real. Take walk in Cairo Museum this
is what you see there http://www.sis.gov.eg/museum/gfloor.htm
And tell me where is all this bad things you describe??
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Psusennes I
Pharaoh


Joined: 09 Sep 2004
Posts: 913
Location: England

PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 6:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Claude II- let's get this straight. The Rosetta stone is not in Arabic. It is in Egyptian, which 99.9% of Egyptian people cannot read. Do not worry about my previous posts- we've dealt with them. Re-read my reasons for not accepting Hawass' bid. Which I posted on Tue Apr 19, 2005.
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maatkara
Pharaoh


Joined: 21 Oct 2004
Posts: 705
Location: Valle d'Aosta- Italy

PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

listen, dear Claude II...

why don't you start minding about the history of your own Country, which is so beautiful and interesting, instead of dedicating time and energies to something that you clearly donot deeply understand?
There are the Viking boats to take care of, think about that!! Those who are not exposed in scandinavian Countries....
we have enough of your bullshits!

please, everybody stop answering this guy!

More, Claude II, where did you take your nick name???it's latin...do you think I should say something because you are using a name that belong to My Country????

pls, do a favour: go playing near the Highway...and pls chose one clogged with traffic!!! Evil or Very Mad
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Dark_Meryetamun_28
Gods/Goddesses


Joined: 22 Nov 2002
Posts: 1265
Location: In the throne of Nephthys

PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HEY. Play nice. Stop flaming, all of you, or this topic gets locked.
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Si-amun
Pharaoh


Joined: 02 Jul 2004
Posts: 947
Location: London, England

PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, sorry DM28, I just went slightly mad for a while because of the idiotic repetition within this damned topic.
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Psusennes I
Pharaoh


Joined: 09 Sep 2004
Posts: 913
Location: England

PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think I speak for the majority of us when I say that it would actually be a good idea to lock this topic now.
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Claude II
Egyptian Architect


Joined: 13 Apr 2005
Posts: 112
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

maatkara wrote:
listen, dear Claude II...
why don't you start minding about the history of your own Country


Hi today I read abut a fine thing your country did Smile Do you now abut the
Aksum-obelisk who stood in front the UN building? It belonged to Ethiopia!
They have tried for many yers to get it back.
Today your country have desided to send it back because you find out it really
belong there. And that is something you and all people would be proud of
I am very proud and hop that this fine gesture will show the world
what way they should go.

This shows that some countries thake responsibillty and do whats right
when other just care abut them self. And i think the Egypts and Dr. Hawass case is growing
stronger everyday.

Read the report from unesco
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maatkara
Pharaoh


Joined: 21 Oct 2004
Posts: 705
Location: Valle d'Aosta- Italy

PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Claude II,
I do think the same about that obelisk and many others in Rome, but still you have the wrong attitude here!

The fact that you think differently from other people in this site, doesn't give you the permission to insult anybody.
We are all here to discuss and confrontate, but not to offend!
I really think you should apologise!
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Si-amun
Pharaoh


Joined: 02 Jul 2004
Posts: 947
Location: London, England

PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Claude, kindly GO. thanks!
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