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Si-amun
Pharaoh


Joined: 02 Jul 2004
Posts: 947
Location: London, England

PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2004 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The generalisation that we were originally quite aryan is quite an unfounded one. Admittedly there were a lot of blondes and dare I say it gingers but jet black hair is an extremely celtic characteristic as well. The French involvement in the 11th century brought a lot of nobility over from France but actually the common people did not change very much at all. My earliest ancestor has a French name but it was Anglicised to the surname that I now have. As a nation we have Scandanavian, Italian, Germanic, French, Irish, Scottish and Spanish blood. In all fairness we are almost as much a mongrel race as Egypt or even modern day America.
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Psusennes I
Pharaoh


Joined: 09 Sep 2004
Posts: 913
Location: England

PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2004 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The world is getting smaller after all!
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Osiris II
Pharaoh


Joined: 13 Mar 2004
Posts: 914
Location: Long Beach, CA

PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Save your breath, guys. Horemheb will NEVER admit that the Egyptians were a mixed race.
I know him from Egypt Search--his attitude is one of the reason I no longer go there. From a bb that was a haven for discussions about ancient Egypt, it has become a soap-box for racial arguments. Ausar is the moderator of Egypt Search, and tries to steer discussions to more general data. But the racial element has completely taken over.
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Tadukhipa
Prince/Princess


Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Posts: 399
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2004 5:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oooh man... There are so many puns to be made here about how certain issues aren't always just "black or white". Wink Laughing (Sorry, couldn't resist).
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coolcochise
Tomb Robber


Joined: 28 Nov 2004
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2004 5:25 pm    Post subject: Perception, Race, Ethnicity 1 of 2 Reply with quote

The fact of the matter is that the acient Egyptions were what "current day America" would consider black. I'ts been my experience in general that white people in general differ or have problems defining what is black as do some blacks, for example:
Halley Berry has an Euro-American mother and a Afro-American father what "race" is she? Phenotypicly (the way she looks) she is black by most all standards, Geneticly (her genes) she is both African and European. The ancent Egyptians were quite simular to the blacks in diaspora (african across the globe due to slavery). Many black across the globe are of mixed ancestry. I myself have East Indian, Chineese, Scotish, as well as African ancestry, my family is from the Caribbean.
The main problem is the archaic notion of race. The Human Genome project has reiterated what intlectuals have been saying for decades now there is on such this as race, only the Human species in wich there is different ethnicities.
A perfect example of this is my family. I have two cousins on my mothers side of the family. They both have the same Grand parents and such but One is White (Phenotypicly) the other is black (Phenotypicly). Not to say that the Egyptians where white and Nubians are black but you can compair and contrast my cousins with the Egyptions and Nubians.
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coolcochise
Tomb Robber


Joined: 28 Nov 2004
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2004 6:34 pm    Post subject: Perception, Race, Ethnicity 2 of 2 Reply with quote

[Skulls are more similar to those found in the Northern Sudan and less similar to those found in West Africa, Palestine, and Turkey. It seems that there has been some genetic continuity from Predynastic time through the Middle Kingdom, after which there was a considerable infiltration into the Nile Valley from outside populations. That the Egyptians by and large were dark is certain, and many must have been what we today call "black."]
--- http://www.catchpenny.org/race.html

This whole topic reminded me of a incident in High School, in social studies class. We had two visitors from Saudi Arabia one was light skined (a yellowish complextion) the other was what Afro-Americans call blue-black, the darkest complexion you skin can get. They approached the class and introduced themselves, they then mentioned that they are brothers. I looked around the class and just about everyone was scratching there heads except for the few Black ones and one Indian student (I went to a predominantly white High School). The students inocently and curiously asked how can they be brothers? They replied only you Americans ask that questions. Me myself, I have a person of every complexion in my family from almost white to very dark, so being a black person the 2 Saudis werent beyond my realm comprehension.

If Wesley snipes (dark), Aaliyah (light), Tisha campbell (light), and Martin Lawrence(dark), were in ancient egypt, most likley we would be arguing wither or not Aaliyah and Tisha campbell were white. However because of the complexion we would assume that Wesley and Martin were Nubians, its such and American mindset to try to catagorize solely according to color.

In closing its all a matter of perception, the fact is that the Egyptians were mixed, however mainly "Black/African" and "Arabic/Semites" and according to genitic research euopean ancestry accounted up to 4% to 8% of the genetic makeup of the people. The truth is its hard to except the facts when in the past there has been many lies and deceptions done in the name of politics and racisim. If someone told me that Jesus was really Chineese and I was raised thinking that he was Hawaiian and he was indeed Chineese I would have problems excepting it. Most people have been taught flat out that the egyptians were white Blond haired and Blue eyed Just read "Catcher in the Rye". Unfortunalty that is not true. If we all except the facts and broden our minds we will accomplish great things like the Ancient Egyptians whom did not have the disadvantage of the concept of race.
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maatkara
Pharaoh


Joined: 21 Oct 2004
Posts: 705
Location: Valle d'Aosta- Italy

PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2004 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ciao Coolcochise!
I agree with you for most of what you wrote.....I wish to add few more things that I think important.... There have always been separation between the north and the south of Ancient Egypt under lots of aspects....the lotus flower and the papyrus are clear symbols of these identifications of this separation. The other thing is that it is important to consider that the northern side, the delta area, was subject to high levels of trade and changes between the people from the mediterranean area, so also "kind" of people belonging to other phenotype, from european side, greek and turkish and so on...it was already mixed....the Southern side was of course less involved, for geografical reasons: they were simply far....so the Nubian phenotype didn't change that much...(to shorten a little..)...
Cia'
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Osiris_God
Scribe


Joined: 15 Mar 2005
Posts: 51
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2005 12:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ancient Egyptians had light to semi dark brown skin from what i have seen.
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maatkara
Pharaoh


Joined: 21 Oct 2004
Posts: 705
Location: Valle d'Aosta- Italy

PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2005 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah...what have you seen?....and WHEN????? Laughing
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Sekhmet the fearsome
Servant


Joined: 14 Apr 2005
Posts: 19
Location: any where i so choose

PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 12:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

where would be a good question. Twisted Evil
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